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Looks like Lockheed Martin is prepping Canadians to accept the firm as our go to for maintenance and training on whichever new submarines we buy.

www.lockheedmartin.com

Beneath the surface: sustaining Canada’s submarine fleet

What’s beneath the surface of the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN)’s submarine program? A hard-working team of Lockheed Martin staff dedicated to maintaining the complex systems that keep Canada’s sailors safe and ready for the mission. Through the Victoria-Class In-Service Support program, they...
www.lockheedmartin.com www.lockheedmartin.com

Honestly, the depth of breadth of Lockheed-Martin in the CAF's projects is notable. It's not just the F-35, but the new destroyers as well.

River-class destroyer (Canadian surface combatant) - Canada.ca

Procurement of the River-class destroyer for the Royal Canadian Navy
www.canada.ca www.canada.ca
 
Northern Light said:
Suffice to say, while he followed rules of decorum, he clearly does not have a high opinion of the Gripen, you couldn't miss that for the world.
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He's not the only one. I see in public discussions that people always act as though it's generals that want the F-35. It's the usual idea of "elites". Nope. I know of pilots who are thinking of putting in their release if the Gripen is purchased. The thing is substantially disliked. For a whole bunch of reasons.

And what never gets discussed, but should, is that only two small NATO countries other than Sweden use the Gripen. Both of them are a bit too Russia friendly (Hungary and Czechia). One of them (Czechia) is only leasing the Gripen till they get delivery of F-35s. Not one of Sweden's neighbours or any country on the Eastern Flank of NATO bordering Russia or Belarus has ordered the Gripen. All are F-35 customers. It's utter madness to see the Canadian public frenzy for this aircraft when looking at global reality.

Admiral Beez said:
Honestly, the depth of breadth of Lockheed-Martin in the CAF's projects is notable. It's not just the F-35, but the new destroyers as well.
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Welcome to multinationals. Lock Mart Canada employs and is lead almost exclusively by Canadian citizens. If you ever talk to any of them, they don't see themselves as some sort of American plant in Canada. If it ever got bad, we wouldn't shutter them. They would be kept whole and nationalized. They are an incredible powerhouse of talent in Canada's defence sector.
 
kEiThZ said:
Welcome to multinationals. Lock Mart Canada employs and is lead almost exclusively by Canadian citizens. If you ever talk to any of them, they don't see themselves as some sort of American plant in Canada.
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That reminds me of Avro Canada, where even though it was a wholly owned subsidiary of Britain's Hawker Siddeley (with the CF-105 Arrow's chief designer James Floyd being a Brit), the place appeared to have firmly Canadian roots.
 
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Admiral Beez said:
After the shite Cyclones, let's get nothing from Sikorsky please!
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This may be part of a deal to get out of the Cyclone. Buy Blackhawks for SOF and Seahawks to replace the Cyclone. Sikorsky is losing money on the Cyclone. So they'd be happy to cut a deal that makes them and us happy.
 
kEiThZ said:
This may be part of a deal to get out of the Cyclone. Buy Blackhawks for SOF and Seahawks to replace the Cyclone. Sikorsky is losing money on the Cyclone. So they'd be happy to cut a deal that makes them and us happy.
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IDK. Fool me once.... fool me twice. And why must we always look to Lockheed Martin for seemingly everything? They're making our fighters, fitting out our new destroyers, and now we're going to buy their helicopters? Is Lockheed Martin the only defence outlet in town? They must have some solid lobbying in Ottawa. At least the Lockheed CP-140 replacement is coming out of Boeing, and unlike the Cyclone's there are other users of the P-8 Poseidon, including the RAF, RAAF and RNZAF. I guess Lockheed-Martin did not have a comparable Maritime Patrol Aircraft, or we'd surely have bought that one.
 
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Admiral Beez said:
Fool me once.... fool me twice.
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The Blackhawk and Seahawk are well performing and renowned aircraft. We almost bought Blackhawks in the 90s before Chretien directed the purchase of the less than loved Griffon.

Admiral Beez said:
And why must we always look to Lockheed Martin for seemingly everything? They're making our fighters, fitting out our new destroyers, and now we're going to buy their helicopters? Is Lockheed Martin the only defence outlet in town? They must have some solid lobbying in Ottawa.
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You get that Sikorsky wasn't always a Lock Mart company right? LM only bought them in 2015. And traditionally, we always bought naval helicopters from Sikorsky. That was the Sea King. The one time the RCAF tried to buy something else (EH-101), we were told that we wanted "Cadillacs". The requirement was lowered and the Cyclone won because Europe didn't really have a competing product at the time.

Land aviation has Chinooks from Boeing and Griffons from Bell. And the latter is basically guaranteed a future contract to replace the Griffon as the only helicopter manufacturer in Canada.

As for why Lock Mart does so many things? It's because consolidation in the 90s led to much larger defence conglomerates. I still remember when Lockheed and Martin Marietta were two different companies. And LockMart is one of the few large multinational that actually tries to compete in Canada. They'll happily build offices here do work here. They'll even take Canadian tech and market it abroad. See the CMS 330 sales. Compare that to Boeing who decided to try and kill the anchor of Canadian aerospace.
 
kEiThZ said:
The Blackhawk and Seahawk are well performing and renowned aircraft. We almost bought Blackhawks in the 90s before Chretien directed the purchase of the less than loved Griffon.



You get that Sikorsky wasn't always a Lock Mart company right? LM only bought them in 2015. And traditionally, we always bought naval helicopters from Sikorsky. That was the Sea King. The one time the RCAF tried to buy something else (EH-101), we were told that we wanted "Cadillacs". The requirement was lowered and the Cyclone won because Europe didn't really have a competing product at the time.

Land aviation has Chinooks from Boeing and Griffons from Bell. And the latter is basically guaranteed a future contract to replace the Griffon as the only helicopter manufacturer in Canada.

As for why Lock Mart does so many things? It's because consolidation in the 90s led to much larger defence conglomerates. I still remember when Lockheed and Martin Marietta were two different companies. And LockMart is one of the few large multinational that actually tries to compete in Canada. They'll happily build offices here do work here. They'll even take Canadian tech and market it abroad. See the CMS 330 sales. Compare that to Boeing who decided to try and kill the anchor of Canadian aerospace.
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I don't think the Griffon, per se, was a bad platform, but rather, we got it, or at least ended up using it for, too many things. A utility helicopter is like a utility knife. It will do a lot of things, none of them particularly well.
 
lenaitch said:
I don't think the Griffon, per se, was a bad platform, but rather, we got it, or at least ended up using it for, too many things. A utility helicopter is like a utility knife. It will do a lot of things, none of them particularly well.
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It even sucked as a utility helicopter. Slow. Underpowered. It can only sling 2000 lbs. That's not even an SUV. Let alone anything the army actually uses. Can't airlift in a full infantry section with body armour and winter kit. That's if you can cram them in to begin with. The CAF made some bad lemonade out of that lemon. But it was still a lemon.
 
kEiThZ said:
LockMart is one of the few large multinational that actually tries to compete in Canada. They'll happily build offices here do work here. They'll even take Canadian tech and market it abroad. See the CMS 330 sales.
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Fair enough, and I respect LM’s investments in Canadian jobs. It’s a good thing LM or the US doesn’t make conventional submarines, as we’d somehow be obliged to buy theirs, though I'm sure LM will work their way into our submarine systems.

BTW, shouldn’t we have a decision soon on the subs, Korean or German?
 
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The German bidder for Canada's submarine contract, TKMS, is preparing a sizable investment package for Canada as they seek to improve their chances:

1769051843764.png

Warship builder TKMS is in talks with Norwegian and German companies to offer a multi-billion-dollar investment package to Canada in a fiercely competitive submarine tender, its CEO said, seeking to beat a rival South Korean bid.
The talks go beyond submarines and cover possible investment commitments in rare earths, mining, artificial intelligence and battery production for the automotive sector, Oliver Burkhard told Reuters.
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The previously unreported investment package plan could boost TKMS as it vies to win the tender after being short-listed last year along with South Korea's Hanwha Ocean to supply up to 12 state-of-the-art submarines to Canada's navy.
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The submarine order alone is estimated to be worth more than 10 billion euros ($12 billion), according to industry sources. The total package could be worth significantly more depending on investment pledges from other sectors, according to people briefed on the discussions.
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"It is no longer just about the submarines. It is primarily about what's beyond," Burkhard told Reuters on the sidelines of an event in Frankfurt, adding the aim was a "broad economic package" to convince the Canadian government of its offer.
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https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...-canada-over-12-billion-submarine-2026-01-20/

Hanwha is also trying to beef up its bid, announcing a partnership with Newfoundland's LNG project::

1769052441392.png

ST. JOHN'S, NL, Jan. 19, 2026 /CNW/ - Hanwha Group announced today that it has signed a strategic Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with Fermeuse Energy to jointly advance the Newfoundland and Labrador LNG development project in Canada. This collaboration underscores Hanwha's long-term industrial commitment to Canada, aligned with its participation in the Canadian Patrol Submarine Project (CPSP) and Canada's Arctic and multi-ocean strategic priorities.

This partnership establishes Hanwha as a long-term strategic partner to Fermeuse Energy, supporting the project's development, engineering, financing, shipbuilding, and LNG logistics across the full LNG value chain. The agreement reflects a shared vision to deliver a reliable and sustainable LNG supply that enhances energy security and contributes to the global energy transition.
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https://www.newswire.ca/news-releas...dustrial-partnership-in-canada-811399218.html
 
It's nice that competitors are lining up for us. My concern with TKMS is their order book and proposed delivery schedule.
 
Admiral Beez said:
I wish that Carney's government would just get on with it. The replacements for the Hornets, Victoria-class subs and Griffon helicopters should not take years to decide on.
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This could be said of many things that the Carney gov't has said 'judge us on the results' ; and those remain some distance off.

Realism is important, of course, 'Rome wasn't built in a day' yada yada.

But we're about a year in, and the action on almost every file has been exceedingly slow and timid.

Some definitive decisions, some actual results are increasingly overdue.

I'll cut the PM's regime some slack, between new leader, elections, world events, big direction shifts etc. It takes some time. But there needs to be more in the results file.

I think they really just flubbed the affordable grocery issue, by not taking a single definitive action to lower prices when there are a few tools. I don't want to bog this thread, down with those details...

Suffice to say, ....time to show achievement is running down.
 
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