[StreetcarRider]

I have some sympathy for all the little hamlets that want a station. Otherwise, what good transit options will they have?

It would be nice if somebody was developing the outlines of adjusted regional services that would take advantage of a future Alto, so that towns could see something in it for them even if it isn't an Alto station.

 

[zang]

I have some sympathy for all the little hamlets that want a station. Otherwise, what good transit options will they have?

We can (and should) improve supplemental transit to the small towns, be it buses or regular trains, to the larger transit hubs.

 

[nfitz]

We can (and should) improve supplemental transit to the small towns, be it buses or regular trains, to the larger transit hubs.

Which was explicitly part of the Alto bids.

 

[APTA-2048]

Has there been any talk of boarding procedures? Because frankly, if they make this thing work like Via, I'd rather shoot myself in the goolies. There's no need for weighing luggage or long lines before the train. Hell, people start lining up a more than an hour in advance of the corridor trip to Montreal on a train where every seat is reserved. Tickets get checked twice, sometimes three times overall. It feels like a make-work program. A better make work program would be running more frequent trains, but I digress... I've ridden trains elsewhere and I have no idea why we do it this way. Oversized luggage can either require a reserved seat or on-board staff can charge you to store it somewhere else, per Shinkansen. No need for weighing it before it even gets on the train, especially if the line is set to be electrified and fuel isn't a concern.

This seems to be only at major stations like Union or Centrale. When I get on at Guildwood, I just show up, go to the platform, get on, and then show them my ticket once.

Edit to add:
There is also no bag weighing. Last time there wasn’t even any staff at the station.

 

[crs1026]

We can (and should) improve supplemental transit to the small towns, be it buses or regular trains, to the larger transit hubs.

The Alto route will explicitly avoid population centers. We absolutely need a regional train network, but it won’t be along the Alto route.

- Paul

 

[zang]

This seems to be only at major stations like Union or Centrale. When I get on at Guildwood, I just show up, go to the platform, get on, and then show them my ticket once.

Edit to add:
There is also no bag weighing. Last time there wasn’t even any staff at the station.

That's because they're unmanned stations. Likewise happens at Cornwall and others. But it's still ridiculous that at a terminus one has to go through all of this rigamarole. What other train network makes its customers do stuff like this?

 

[APTA-2048]

That's because they're unmanned stations. Likewise happens at Cornwall and others. But it's still ridiculous that at a terminus one has to go through all of this rigamarole. What other train network makes its customers do stuff like this?

I’ve heard it’s more to do with restrictions of the infrastructure at these major stations. If Alto has a completely new station, it would reason a lot of these problems would be eliminated.

 

[nfitz]

I’ve heard it’s more to do with restrictions of the infrastructure at these major stations. If Alto has a completely new station, it would reason a lot of these problems would be eliminated.

What infrastructure is restricted at Union and Central to cause them to have to do this? If anything stations like Kingston and Dorval, with their outdoor platforms would I think be more limiting.

And even at Union and Central - what has changed? They didn't used to give a damn about how heavy (or bulky) as suitcase was, that you could carry. Even more so I'd think these days, with the addition of the baggage racks near the entrance, rather than having to put everything overhead - or have they eliminated them?

 

[zang]

I’ve heard it’s more to do with restrictions of the infrastructure at these major stations. If Alto has a completely new station, it would reason a lot of these problems would be eliminated.

What kind of restrictions would there be though at Union? It seems like it's all like it's been modelled after an airport rather than any kind of rail system. Why can't people head up to the platform and wait for their train there? Why can't the via concourse just be seating, rather than predominantly queueing space? Why weigh luggage at all? It can't be about the weight of the trains, as the weight's gonna be there any time a train gets loaded/unloaded. And if platform space were a concern, why let everyone off the train at the same time?

As a side matter, why are almost all the screens in that concourse showing GO information instead of Via?

It all feels like it's just about what someone *thought* it should be like, instead of what's functionally faster, more comfortable and efficient.

 

[APTA-2048]

What infrastructure is restricted at Union and Central to cause them to have to do this? If anything stations like Kingston and Dorval, with their outdoor platforms would I think be more limiting.

And even at Union and Central - what has changed? They didn't used to give a damn about how heavy (or bulky) as suitcase was, that you could carry. Even more so I'd think these days, with the addition of the baggage racks near the entrance, rather than having to put everything overhead - or have they eliminated them?

I can’t speak for baggage restrictions. But for controlling the flow of people to the platforms, I heard that, had to do with how narrow they can get in some places. But again, that’s just something I’ve heard.

Also I just want to let people know: you don’t actually have to line up. You can join the line after it starts moving.

 

[zang]

I can’t speak for baggage restrictions. But for controlling the flow of people to the platforms, I heard that, had to do with how narrow they can get in some places. But again, that’s just something I’ve heard.

I edited my previous comment to address this. If this were a problem, why are all cars allowed to disembark at the same time then?

Also I just want to let people know: you don’t actually have to line up. You can join the line after it starts moving.

True, but all that space would be better put to use as seating for more passengers, rather than the alcoves (which are often prioritized for those with mobility issues, pre boarding, etc.)

It all feels like Via is cosplaying a train service.

Note, I say this as my in-laws train (currently moving on the corridor) left Montreal almost an hour and a half late, for "operational constraints." This was the same excuse given to those stranded overnight at Brockville. All on new Lumi trains, even.

 

[APTA-2048]

I edited my previous comment to address this. If this were a problem, why are all cars allowed to disembark at the same time then?

I dunno. I mean I could be wrong because that was just something I’ve heard in passing.

True, but all that space would be better put to use as seating for more passengers, rather than the alcoves (which are often prioritized for those with mobility issues, pre boarding, etc.)

I’m not sure if they still do that. I’ve sat in the alcoves numerous times waiting for a GO train or family and have never been told to leave. I think there is one exclusive TD branded one, though.

 

[crs1026]

I can't speak for Montreal, but the practice in Toronto predates the diesel engine, and made some sense in the days before assigned cars and seats. Back when car numbers weren't posted, passengers had to be directed to the right car (by destination, in many cases) and it took the platform staff to sort out which passengers went where. It has only been, what, thirty years since that changed, but here we are.

There are things that would need to be done to pedestrian-proof the platforms, such as better end of platform demarcation and fencing. And open access would demand more security patrols to ensure that platform boundaries are respected. (Sorry, trainspotters)

There's also the problem that some platforms are shared by VIA and GO and are paid-only areas for GO and not for VIA - passengers are herded to VIA trains so this is not mixed up. And the platform narrowness and sightlines are a valid concern.

So yeah it's a logistical convenience for VIA at present, but in spirit I agree that the current arrangement is absurdly cumbersome and adults should be allowed to find their platform and coach door without showing their tickets repeatedly, with good wayfinding giving correct intel about where each coach door will be found. Other countries have had this simple practice for decades now.

PS - a friend witnessed a staff meltdown at Montreal's business lounge recently where a VIA staffer entered the lounge and cheerfully announced that a certain train's business car was ready to board. More than one passenger, who were watching for the train on VIA's Moving Maps page, pointed out that the train had not yet even pulled in to the depot....at which point a second staffer blew their top and loudly accused the first worker, "you're lying to them again. Why do you come in here and lie to passengers ?" VIA's whole gatekeeping regime is much in need of improvement..... even Westjet does better.

- Paul

 

[McGillicuddy]

They're literally widening the platforms at Toronto Union as we speak. So, yes: it's a known issue.

How we’re upgrading platforms at Union Station

Improvements at platform and concourse levels will help reduce crowding.

www.metrolinx.com

While the work begins with the new GO concourse at the south end of the station, the plan for the project's lifecycle is to, once the new concourse is open, circle back and widen/enhance the existing platforms.

 

[nfitz]

Also I just want to let people know: you don’t actually have to line up. You can join the line after it starts moving.

Or wait for it to clear. If it's on time and I arrive and there's still a line, I feel I've arrived too early. I can understand in the day when you might have wanted a good seat (but even then I didn't), but I can't fathom it these days.