[zang]

The main difference between checked baggage and baggage brought by the passenger on board is that luggage can be lifted horizontally into a bagge car, whereas all other cars require luggage to be simultaneously lifted horizontally and vertically. Try to lift a suitcase up with your arm next to your body. Now try the same while stretching your arm as far as your arms goes…

Or y’know, we could make all platforms level boarding and solve a multitude of problems with accessibility as well.

 

[McGillicuddy]

Or y’know, we could make all platforms level boarding and solve a multitude of problems with accessibility as well.

Yes, the problem must be that nobody has thought of that before.

 

[micheal_can]

We have seen that Montreal is likely a stub for their station. What if all major stations are? So, Toronto, Ottawa,Montreal and Quebec city all are terminals and if you are on a train like Toronto -Montreal, the train bypasses the Ottawa station? Would that be a good or bad thing?

 

[micheal_can]

Or y’know, we could make all platforms level boarding and solve a multitude of problems with accessibility as well.

Since this line will not interact with freight or any other type of train, there is no reason it cannot be level boarding.

 

[Voltz]

Since this line will not interact with freight or any other type of train, there is no reason it cannot be level boarding.

That depends on convincing Metrolinx or whoever that Union could have a few high level platforms, since GO couldn’t use them.

 

[Voltz]

We have seen that Montreal is likely a stub for their station. What if all major stations are? So, Toronto, Ottawa,Montreal and Quebec city all are terminals and if you are on a train like Toronto -Montreal, the train bypasses the Ottawa station? Would that be a good or bad thing?

I’m skeptical that Ottawa will end up using the old downtown station, the location of the existing one is fine. And reversing direction at a stub end station doesn’t really take more time than a through station.

Also this tunnel into Montreal is a substantial construction time and cost sink for the first phase of the line, putting the entire project at risk. I’d have the line operate to Cote-de-Liesse REM at first until CDPQ replaces the railway tunnel they stole.

 

[micheal_can]

That depends on convincing Metrolinx or whoever that Union could have a few high level platforms, since GO couldn’t use them.

Why should it matter? Build the ALTO stations and line completely separate from everything else. Dig under everything and build the station platforms as needed.

I’m skeptical that Ottawa will end up using the old downtown station, the location of the existing one is fine. And reversing direction at a stub end station doesn’t really take more time than a through station.

Look at Via's current timetable. They already bypass Ottawa. In fact, you cannot go through Ottawa to go Montreal- Toronto without changing trains. Passengers are already used to it. At the frequency planned, this would cut down on number of platforms needed. The only way your way would work if trains did not terminate or start in Ottawa.

Also this tunnel into Montreal is a substantial construction time and cost sink for the first phase of the line, putting the entire project at risk. I’d have the line operate to Cote-de-Liesse REM at first until CDPQ replaces the railway tunnel they stole.

So, a phase 1 would be to CdL station?
If tunneling to Union were also not part of phase1, where should it terminate? Future McCowen subway?

 

[Voltz]

So, a phase 1 would be to CdL station?
If tunneling to Union were also not part of phase1, where should it terminate? Future McCowen subway?

It’s just an idea of mine, they haven’t made any decisions, my concern is not getting Alto cancelled because of substantial upfront costs and construction costs for the first phase.

If there is to be a tunnel to Union, I can’t see it being longer than needed to access an underground station, nothing compared to what is being contemplated for Montreal.

 

[McGillicuddy]

To recap what several people have already pointed out about the downtown Ottawa station:

• The trainshed and associated infrastructure are gone.
• They cannot be rebuilt without demolishing several other buildings, including National Defence Headquarters and Ottawa's principal convention centre.
• While you can tunnel instead, this would be extremely expensive compared to the alternatives. (And the Department of National Defence may have views on whether they want a rail tunnel under their headquarters building.)
• You will not be allowed to do any work which endangers the Rideau Canal as a cultural and environmental entity. You cannot mess up the view, you cannot add noise, you cannot do major construction in the vicinity, you cannot obstruct pedestrian or vehicular access, thou shalt not.
• Any alignment which runs through to the old station would piss off a ton of well-connected NIMBY types who have historically been very successful at getting the city to prioritize them.
• Most (all?) ALTO trains through Ottawa will be through trains, meaning that having a terminus will create ongoing operational issues. (Whereas most trains to Montreal will terminate there.)
• Ottawa already has an under-utilized rail station which is connected to their metro system, adjacent to the Trans-Canada Highway, and surrounded by cheap industrial and ex-industrial land for expansion.

At this point, I'm inclined to assume that the people who are still pitching for the downtown station are drunk on nostalgia and ignoring the rest of what they're really proposing.

 

[KhalilHeron]

• Ottawa already has an under-utilized rail station which is connected to their metro system, adjacent to the Trans-Canada Highway, and surrounded by cheap industrial and ex-industrial land for expansion.

Interestingly, the existing Via station is also closer to downtown as the crow flies (Ottawa station-Parliment) than Summerhill is to Union in Toronto. On the O-Train it's only about a 12 minute ride. It's not exactly an ideal walkable location but it's not nearly as far out as many are making it seem.

 

[ericmacm]

• They cannot be rebuilt without demolishing several other buildings, including National Defence Headquarters and Ottawa's principal convention centre.
• While you can tunnel instead, this would be extremely expensive compared to the alternatives. (And the Department of National Defence may have views on whether they want a rail tunnel under their headquarters building.)

The operations from NDHQ Pearkes complex are actually planned to be relocated to NDHQ Carling. A new $1B build for an operational headquarters building at Carling was announced in 2023. I’m not sure if they started anything yet but they are planning on having it done for 2029 and eventually vacating the Pearkes complex.

This does not solve the remainder of the challenges associated with Ottawa Union Station though.

 

[Northern Light]

So many posters talking about so little, LOL

****

Let me drop a little something in here.........

Notices to property owners where Alto may be looking to take an interest will be heading out shortly. That should make a wee bit of news. Don't have the exact dates, but will be relatively soon.

 

[nfitz]

Please provide specific examples for what “such policies” in what “such places” you are referring to…

Policies = a 23-kg baggage allowances. Such places = termini. Only time I've seen any interest in luggage is at some international termini.

Again, could you provide more specific examples?

A lack of weighing baggage, at intermediate stations such as Kingston or Oskelaneo Lodge. Why is it fine to carry on a 40 kg bag at those stations?

The main difference between checked baggage and baggage brought by the passenger on board is that luggage can be lifted horizontally into a bagge car, whereas all other cars require luggage to be simultaneously lifted horizontally and vertically. Try to lift a suitcase up with your arm next to your body. Now try the same while stretching your arm as far as your arms goes…

And yet I've managed 40+ kg bags myself when moving, in days of yon. You don't lift suitcases that way putting them above the seat - you don't even need to these days now they've removed some seats to have racks for baggage.

 

[lrt's friend]

The Ottawa issues are not as bad as indicated. Although the buildings mentioned do cover some of the old rail yards at Union Station, there is no need for more than 2 tracks that can be placed under Colonel By Drive. There won't be many NIMBYs either as the ROW goes near the University of Ottawa, a highway interchange and a designated road corridor. You might get a bit on the last as some have tried to claim it as a community park, which it is not

 

[McGillicuddy]

The operations from NDHQ Pearkes complex are actually planned to be relocated to NDHQ Carling. A new $1B build for an operational headquarters building at Carling was announced in 2023. I’m not sure if they started anything yet but they are planning on having it done for 2029 and eventually vacating the Pearkes complex.

This does not solve the remainder of the challenges associated with Ottawa Union Station though.

The latest estimates put it in the late 2030s at the earliest.