[Fritter]

Does tolling the 401 make it unfair to the drivers who use it to go from London to Kingston, or the traffic going from Montreal to Windsor? Yes tolling 401 and adding more transit options for the traffic users originating and traveling within the GTA would be the best option, but we need to remember that this freeway serves a vital transportation corridor to and from vast distances far from the GTA borders

 

[Dreambig1]

There are 3 tolled freeways/ freeway sections in Canada I would love to see eliminated. the 407, a section of Quebec Autoroute 30, and a section of Nova Scotia Highway 104

 

[lenaitch]

Why don't we just mandate WFH 1 day a week for jobs where it's able?

How do you figure that would legislatively work? The Covid work from home mandate at least had a public health basis.

 

[Dan416]

If we're going to veer into the fantasy of buying parts of the 407, I'd buy the part through Oakville/Burlington and renumber it 403, as it was supposed to be.

 

[innsertnamehere]

There are 3 tolled freeways/ freeway sections in Canada I would love to see eliminated. the 407, a section of Quebec Autoroute 30, and a section of Nova Scotia Highway 104

Those are pretty much the only tolled highways in Canada in the first place lol.

For some reason Canadians hate toll highways, more than basically any other country.

 

[Fritter]

Recent discussion of ring roads got me to realize that central Durham (Whitby, Oshawa, Courtice) has a freeway ring road via 401, 418, 407 and 412.

 

[lenaitch]

Those are pretty much the only tolled highways in Canada in the first place lol.

For some reason Canadians hate toll highways, more than basically any other country.

I suspect it is a cultural aversion - and political Kryptonite - to apply a user fee for something built with public money, particularly for something that was once free. We seem to accept user fees for something we physically get; a driver's licence, passport, etc. The US seems more amenable to them because their taxes are comparatively lower.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I suspect it is a cultural aversion - and political Kryptonite - to apply a user fee for something built with public money, particularly for something that was once free. We seem to accept user fees for something we physically get; a driver's licence, passport, etc. The US seems more amenable to them because their taxes are comparatively lower.

They are more common basically in every other western country. Canada is the only country that really avoids them and where they are completely politically toxic.

 

[turbanplanner]

I suspect it is a cultural aversion - and political Kryptonite - to apply a user fee for something built with public money, particularly for something that was once free. We seem to accept user fees for something we physically get; a driver's licence, passport, etc. The US seems more amenable to them because their taxes are comparatively lower.

The US also has like a 75 cent toll vs the $75 I've paid in the past for a 30 min drive

They are more common basically in every other western country. Canada is the only country that really avoids them and where they are completely politically toxic.

Mostly because the few tolls we have cost dozens of dollars vs cents for an average trip

 

[afransen]

I was looking at Google Maps and thinking, the province builds the 413 from the 401 to 400, builds the Bradford Bypass from the 400 to 404, then explores the idea of hypothetically buying the portion from the owners of the 407 ETR company for the portion running from the 404 to the location in which the province currently owns. Would this not have a positive impact on congestion on the entire 401 if this were to become a serious plan, specifically giving drivers a full east-west non-tolled route, even though it's not a continuous highway? thoughts anyone?

You would have to pay a lot for that stretch of the 407 because dropping tolls on it would cause substantial congestion, severely degrading the value proposition of a free-flowing highway at peak times, when the 'free' 407 backs up a dozen KM onto the tolled stretch.

 

[afransen]

I get what you're saying about effective capacity, but absolute capacity would not be increased just by tolling it.

Where would all the drivers go that would be dissuaded from driving on the 401? Wilson-York Mills-Ellesmere? Sheppard? Lawrence? Finch? And if the 427, 400, 404/DVP are not tolled as well, then the on- and off-ramps for those highways could be a nightmare.

If the overall number of cars are reduced on Toronto roads (including the 401), that wouldn't necessarily be a good thing. A lot of those people don't have other good options. Driving often costs more than transit, but it saves time (even during rush hour) and makes long commutes feasible. IMO transit sucks so bad in Toronto that I just don't see that many people switching to transit from the 401 simply due to exorbitant 407-like tolls. They're more likely to switch to non-highway arterials. Given the location and importance of the 401, I assume the tolls on the 401 would have to be higher than the 407 just to achieve a minimum 85-90% speed limit from 6am to 8pm.

I think it would make people re-consider taking jobs on the other side of the GTA for a couple thousand dollars a year more. Employers would be even more incentivized to locate their workplaces in transit accessible areas to draw on the biggest talent pool. As it is, I would just flat out refuse to work in Scarborough for any amount less than what it would be worth for me to move nearby. I will not deal with 401 commuting as it is. If the 401 were sufficiently tolled that trip times were reasonable, maybe I would be willing to drive, for the right level of compensation.

 

[afransen]

Does tolling the 401 make it unfair to the drivers who use it to go from London to Kingston, or the traffic going from Montreal to Windsor? Yes tolling 401 and adding more transit options for the traffic users originating and traveling within the GTA would be the best option, but we need to remember that this freeway serves a vital transportation corridor to and from vast distances far from the GTA borders

Why not copy the 407 scheme to give a handful of free trips per time period for those with low incomes?

 

[innsertnamehere]

The US also has like a 75 cent toll vs the $75 I've paid in the past for a 30 min drive


Mostly because the few tolls we have cost dozens of dollars vs cents for an average trip

The US has plenty of expensive urban toll roads too.

Canadians are most familiar with the thruways of the US northeast, which are indeed tolled relatively affordably.. But many aren't.

The Washington DC Express lane network can get more expensive than the 407 in rush hours. There are plenty of express toll lanes across the US that operate under similar pricing schems as the 407.

The Chicago Skyway charges $8 USD to drive 10 kilometres.

Etc.

Also - the other toll roads in Canada have proven wildly unpopular over the years. The Champlain Bridge was supposed to be tolled at a nominal amount, that was walked back. The trans-canada in Nova Scotia has a nominal toll which has been removed.. etc. 407 had relatively modest tolls for an urban freeway which were removed.. etc.

 

[ShonTron]

We’re just not used to tolls on our highways in Canada, with the exception of the 407, one tunnel and one bridge in Greater Montreal, one set of toll booths in Nova Scotia and a few (but not many) other domestic bridges and tunnels like the Confederation Bridge and the two Halifax Harbour spans.

Though long distance highways are not generally expensive to drive, some agencies have really jacked up their rates. The Pennsylvania Turnpike is pricey. And yes, as mentioned, some of the urban highways are expensive like Chicago Skyway, which, you guessed it, was privatized.

It’s also easy to get electronic transponders like EzPass without the junk fees the 407 charges; with the New York State Thruway Authority, it’s a one time purchase with no monthly fee, no per trip fee, no administrative fees, and you can self-manage your account, linked to a chequing account or credit card. Even without a transponder, it’s not that much more expensive especially if you pay on the website soon after travelling by entering your plate.

I’d actually use the 407 on an infrequent basis if I was just paying the per km charge. It’s just not worth it as a rare occurrence because of the added fees.

 

[turbanplanner]

Why not copy the 407 scheme to give a handful of free trips per time period for those with low incomes?

Their definition of low income is MAXIMUM $28k, who tf can afford a car insurance etc with that?

And they gave you a whopping 6 trips a month.


My FREE ez pass transponder a wayyyyy higher quality than the $30 a year leased service the 407 rents to me.

And garbage fees? A $20ish dollar charge becomes $40 after all the fees!!