[Northern Light]

You can't.

The stations were not designed to accomodate them and retrofitting them would be prohibitively expensive.

This is true. two at each and every station would be in the billions, probably tens of billions, because you have to alter the track geometry, at several locations.

That said @81-717 is not wrong to think we can do better.

1) It is feasible (though not cheap) to isolate the power feed to the existing crossovers, so they aren't affected by a shutdown one or more stations away.

2) We can add additional cross-overs, just not dozens or such. Again, its expensive, as it would, in most cases, require removing a section of tunnel wall and placing a new beam in, for a distance of many meters, and you really want the tracks/tunnels on both sides to be straight, or quite close to straight to make it workable.

On the latter, I can live w/the number of crossovers on line 1, but I think Line 2 requires at least 3 more gross, 2 more net to be more resilient.

Adding locations in the east and west should be feasible; but adding one between Castlefrank and Bay (ideally Sherbourne) to avoid the problematic St. George to Broadview service gap looks very, very challenging. Curves and bridges galore. I'm not sure it is feasible at a price that would make any sense at all.

 

[Northern Light]

Shutting down the core of the subway for over an hour at rush hour for a trespasser seems like another failure.

Platform Edge Doors are the key move here. For Line 2, that will require ATC.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

This is true. two at each and every station would be in the billions, probably tens of billions, because you have to alter the track geometry, at several locations.

That said @81-717 is not wrong to think we can do better.

1) It is feasible (though not cheap) to isolate the power feed to the existing crossovers, so they aren't affected by a shutdown one or more stations away.

2) We can add additional cross-overs, just not dozens or such. Again, its expensive, as it would, in most cases, require removing a section of tunnel wall and placing a new beam in, for a distance of many meters, and you really want the tracks/teunnels on both sides to be straight, or quite close to straight to make it workable.

On the latter, I can live w/the number of crossovers on line 1, but I think Line 2 requires at least 3 more gross, 2 more net to be more resilient.

Adding locations in the east and west should be feasible; but adding one between Castlefrank and Bay (ideally Sherbourne) to avoid the problematic St. George to Broadview service gap looks very, very challenging. Curves and bridges galore. I'm not sure it is feasible at a price that would make any sense at all.

Dundas West Station should have crossover tracks (the next station west Keele Station has the crossover tracks), then UPX and GO trains could be used to continue trips to downtown.

 

[Northern Light]

Dundas West Station should have crossover tracks (the next station west Keele Station has the crossover tracks), then UPX and GO trains could be used to continue trips to downtown.

There is a logic to that, as there would be to a crossover at Main in the east end for a multiple reasons (station capacity, alternate bus routes etc.).

Of course, these weren't built into the line as they were not terminal stations, and weren't thought necessary at the time.

A retrofit may well be desirable, but won't come cheap. I think its worth a feasibility study to understand how do-able it is and a rough estimated cost. Whether it should be prioritized..... well, lets wait for that result.

 

[Richard White]

Dundas West Station should have crossover tracks (the next station west Keele Station has the crossover tracks), then UPX and GO trains could be used to continue trips to downtown.

Uhhh...

You are not suggesting that GO trains and the UPX use the subway tracks are you?

 

[jmi22]

If only they put in those turn around curves they agreed to 20 years ago but then forgot about!

Sorry not familiar with the plan, there were plans for a new streetcar loop on Queen East?

 

[nfitz]

You are not suggesting that GO trains and the UPX use the subway tracks are you?

I'd assume he meant the passengers would change at Dundas West to GO/UP. I don't think the trains would!

 

[jmi22]

Yup—two massive storms in the same week, followed by a deep plunge in temperatures. Calling in the army was the best decision Mel ever made, if you ask me. It was genuinely serious.

What always stuck with me is that a year or two later, when Jack Layton was running for the federal NDP leadership, he mocked it in his speeches to put distance between himself and Toronto—at one point even revising the snowfall down to “10 cm.” I was generally a fan of Layton, but that move irked me to no end.

Layton always resented the association between himself and the (in his mind) greedy excesses and seeming limp-wristd-ness that came along with Toronto being the financial/services hub of the country. His constant bemoaning of "manhattenization" in the core revealed quite well he wished Toronto never pulled out of becoming just another rustbelt town.

Anyways, yesterday I foolishly assumed the closures were over and arrived to Kipling station around 3pm just as (heard from TTC employee) a train became stuck at Islington. Fix took 2 hours-ish, and as others have pointed out an issue occurring more than 24 hours after the end of snow falling seems like a complete failure.

 

[Northern Light]

Uhhh...

You are not suggesting that GO trains and the UPX use the subway tracks are you?

No, he didn't mean connection tracks, just a turnback for subway trains. So that if there were a subway obstruction east of Dundas West, trains from Kipling would be turned at a station that provided an alternative route to downtown via GO.

 

[Northern Light]

Sorry not familiar with the plan, there were plans for a new streetcar loop on Queen East?

There is/was a plan for a loop at Queen/Broadview through what is now a Green P Parking lot. That was paused indefinitely. Because why? Which member of Council loves parking more than anything else in life? That's right.....

***

Not sure that would have helped much in this particular case, but its still a good idea. Connecting tracks btw Kingston and Queen via Woodbine, and btw Queen and Gerrard via Carlaw would also make sense. Though, in a world of limited funds, such ideas don't top my list of priorities.

 

[JasonParis]

I'd also like the no left-turn from Queen to Broadview to be kept indefinitely.

 

[Fred.S]

Dundas West Station should have crossover tracks (the next station west Keele Station has the crossover tracks), then UPX and GO trains could be used to continue trips to downtown.

I wonder if the crossover tracks just east of Keele could be used for Dundas West., since they are between those two stations. I guess operationally it would be difficult since they are so close to Keele, and signalling would have to be upgraded. But it could be worth it to take pressure off the shuttle buses by directly getting people onto the GO train during disruptions.

 

[robmausser]

I'd also like the no left-turn from Queen to Broadview to be kept indefinitely.

An alternative I thought up a while ago, but would require quite intelligent smart traffic lights, is a form of TSP where if a streetcar is behind left turning cars, to give the cars an advanced left to clear out of the way of the streetcar. And the advanced left would only be triggered by a streetcar near the intersection, to not slow down streetcars going the other direction unncessecarily. Basically the purpose of the advanced left would be only for the purpose of getting the left turning cars out of the path of a streetcar.

 

[IRT_BMT_IND]

Anyways, yesterday I foolishly assumed the closures were over and arrived to Kipling station around 3pm just as (heard from TTC employee) a train became stuck at Islington. Fix took 2 hours-ish, and as others have pointed out an issue occurring more than 24 hours after the end of snow falling seems like a complete failure.

The closures were because of snow blocking (insulating) the third rail. I rode the subway north of Bloor today and in the a lot of the open cut sections the third rail is still almost totally buried, with just enough metal exposed for the contact shoe to pick up power. And some of the trains had crazy arcing so I doubt it wouldn't take a lot to block it again.

 

[evandyk]

Edit: Given how long this is going on and where it is, I suspect they are chasing someone through Lower Bay

Not only did it take over an hour for them to chase him through lower Bay, Line 2 never really got going properly again. We waited 20 minutes at Dufferin Station, 20 minutes after the line had reopened, to finally get a train that had room for a group of 3 to get on.