[81-717]

Ok, time to prune this thread too.

Keep it civil.

Yeah this forum sure had a sudden surge of activity lately. I check my watched list frequently, and often there's like 4 or 5 unread threads since the last time I checked, some of them (like this one) would often have 2 or more pages of unread posts within that time.

 

[MisterF]

If were going to compare to Japan in the case of LRT would the Utsunomiya LRT which opened in 2024 not be a better example? Just some quick facts about it... it is 14.6km with 19 stops and end to end travel time is 44 minutes (46 on holiday schedules). It also has express service which blew my mind but that's probably not a fair comparison given the Toronto doesn't have a history of any express rail service outside of the GO network. Ultimately the line has been a success and has even generated 20% more ridership then was forecast with the city already having a 5km extension in the works. It's the first new Light-Rail line in Japan in like 60 years and given its success it won't be the last as Japan is also dealing with rising subway construction costs. It's actually probably worse in real terms given the state of the Yen and the overall decline of the economy, so cheaper transit solutions are becoming more appealing. I know Naha in Okinawa has a proposal for 3 new LRT lines but that project is still years away from materializing.

Well I know it was true on Finch so I would assume its possible on Eglinton as well; that said I don't have any video of it but there must be some from the plethora of youtube videos made about the line before it opened.

Another relatively new LRT is the Valley Line in Edmonton. It's 13.1 km long and if Google Maps travel times are to be believed, an average speed of just under 25 km/h. I haven't ridden it myself but as far as I can tell it's almost completely at grade and a lot less intrusive on the landscape than the older lines with railway crossing arms. And yet relatively fast and much cheaper to build than a subway on a route that doesn't need the highest capacity.

It's clear that Metrolinx and the TTC have completely dropped the ball with the new LRTs in Toronto and the TTC can't even operate its own streetcars properly anymore. Every decision seems to be driven by fear of angering the car lobby. But that doesn't mean that streetcars and LRT are inherently bad. Arguably the worst thing about this debacle is that it's completely poisoned the concept of LRT in the minds of residents and transit enthusiasts, who now argue for subways or nothing. So while other cities build well designed LRT, there's a very real danger that we'll get another generation of nothing as a result.

 

[urbanclient]

If were going to compare to Japan in the case of LRT would the Utsunomiya LRT which opened in 2024 not be a better example?

Utsunomiya RT travels at about the same speed as Eglinton overall, but much faster than Eglinton's surface section. So yes, Eglinton can and should be faster.

Adjustments could have been made to the Eglinton to have it run more like the Yamanote

Eglinton could not be adjusted to run like Yamanote, which runs mostly, if not fully on old railway ROW. The type of running entailed by conversion of freight or passenger ROWs to trams cannot and will not replicated in Toronto, I won't relitigate the details. It's far from a copy+paste solution.

Priority has been given to cars, period. All decisions were made with cars in mind instead of people.

I fully agree. I hope people are readying to lobby their councillor for strong TSP and faster operations after Eglinton opens: priority of transit over cars please.

Making it a subway would have made absolutely zero difference if cars were not given a veto over moving people quickly.

Subways are fully-grade separated from cars in Toronto. No reason to believe cars would affect any hypothetical future subway.

A metro with one protected grade crossing is not the same as a median tram crossing 14 traffic light intersections. It's not pedantry to point that out. Tokyo's urban rail having grade crossing(s) was mentioned in threads weeks/months ago.

The solvable problem is not the would've, could've, should've i.e. saying Eglinton should've been built like an at-grade Japanese metro is not productive. The solvable problem is Eglinton lacking real TSP, while being operated very slowly on the surface sections: unlike many other trams. Lobby your councillor, bring up the nonsensically anti-transit people in the City's Traffic Systems Operations.

 

[interchange42]

Just jumping in here to remind people that UrbanToronto has Rules of Conduct meant to keep the forum threads friendly.

If anyone disagrees with something posted on UrbanToronto, post ONCE stating why, keeping it to the topic and staying away from personal attacks. Then, move on: no long-running battles reiterating the same talking points, or your account will be negatively affected. You're here to air your views, not to convert all viewers to your point of view, so if there's no uptake, let it go.

More importantly though, if anyone attacks anyone else in this thread going forward, report it: their attacker's account will be negatively affected. If anyone badgers any members via DMs going forward, report that too. The DMer's account will be negatively affected. We want friendly discussion here, and a safe space where members my have to agree not to agree... if need be. Make peace, and we everyone will have a better experience here.

42

 

[Chaplinurbex]

Olivia Chow just walked back from the Feb. 8 date, it seems...

Can you link to where she said this?

 

[hw621]

Can you link to where she said this?

She had an interview with a Chinese radio station today. She softened the tones on the Feb. 8 date, and instead stated that still "hopeful" for Februaury... I heard it on radio but do not have the scripts...

 

[RGB_11]

She had an interview with a Chinese radio station today. She softened the tones on the Feb. 8 date, and instead stated that still "hopeful" for Februaury... I heard it on radio but do not have the scripts...

On Toronto's Fairchild 1430 AM radio?

 

[hw621]

On Toronto's Fairchild 1430 AM radio?

Probably, one of the two lol

 

[eglinton1661]

Eglinton Crosstown will be a true game changer

You're gonna love it, but Rob Ford was right

markmcqueen.substack.com

It appears that this person was given acesses to line 5 two or three days ago along with some other journalists.

They've got some clips in there article if anyone cares to look.

Lol here's why: "this person" is a director at Metrolinx. It's PR...

Puts his pessimism about the ability of Metrolinx to assess what went wrong with this project and retain talent in perspective!

No one will ever know how much of the ECLRT line’s construction delays can be explained-away by Covid-19, supply chain challenges, legal skirmishes, inexperience, complications resulting from building a new line underneath an old (yet active) subway line, or supplier cash flow challenges. Will the next big transit project be easier or cheaper? I doubt it — institutional knowledge gets hired-away across the globe, and most of us “overseers” turn over before we’re able to prevent the same mistakes from being made, time and again.

If that’s even possible.

 

[urbanclient]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXsix-krYcU

I can't tell if this is sarcasm...I think cars are going 60 there, so is the LRT going 50?

I thought it was 50 too. Unfortunately, 76 metres in 7 seconds is 39 km/h, in 6 seconds is 45.6 km/h. No matter how I time it, front or back of train, there is no way it hits 50 km/h.
There is clearly some sort of speed restriction in place, maybe they're overly cautious since the Sunnybrook stop is 300 metres away.

 

[littlewill1166]

Lol here's why: "this person" is a director at Metrolinx. It's PR...

View attachment 711698
Puts his pessimism about the ability of Metrolinx to assess what went wrong with this project and retain talent in perspective!

The guy is retired, director is a part time rubber stamp advisory job.

I've been a director and member of advisory committees. Sometimes I wonder what the point is when all the decisions have already been made.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Emergency brake issue fuels uncertainty over Eglinton LRT opening - The Globe and Mail

Just days before a potential opening of the long-delayed Eglinton Crosstown light-rail line, Ontario’s Metrolinx agency and the Toronto Transit Commission were at odds over a small number of incidents in which the vehicles’ automatic emergency brakes appeared to activate for no reason.
Two sources with knowledge of the 11th-hour efforts to launch the 19-kilometre line − which has been under construction for 15 years, at a cost of $13-billion − said the TTC had recently identified the problem as a potential safety issue.
The sources said TTC officials had found that a handful of times in recent testing, what appeared to be random emergency braking had brought cars to a halt. The Globe and Mail is not identifying the sources, as they were not authorized to discuss internal deliberations.
By late Thursday afternoon, however, after meetings involving city officials, TTC brass and Metrolinx, the sources said technical explanations had been provided for the braking incidents, but would not elaborate. The two sources also said that Feb. 8 − Super Bowl Sunday − could still be the kickoff date for the Crosstown, although nothing official had been announced.
Asked whether the TTC had identified a safety issue with the Crosstown that could hold up the line’s launch, Metrolinx spokeswoman Lyndsay Miller referred The Globe’s questions to the TTC.
However, in an e-mail, she said that at a Jan. 20 meeting of top TTC and Metrolinx officials, the TTC had confirmed that “no safety critical issues were outstanding.” A thousand TTC and Metrolinx staff participated in a successful simulation of full operations last week, she added.
Ms. Miller also said that Metrolinx “has been working around the clock with the TTC to provide information and data in direct response to all TTC requests.”
The TTC did not immediately provide a comment. Alstom, the maker of the vehicles, declined to comment.
City officials had already undertaken planning for an event to commemorate the launch on Feb. 8. They had even approached local jazz-funk ensemble the Shuffle Demons to perform, 40 years after the release of their 1986 hit Spadina Bus, a rap-infused ode to the now-defunct TTC route.
The group’s Richard Underhill told The Globe that the band had not yet secured the gig and that he did not know where the ceremony would take place.
“As Trump might say, there is a concept of a plan. I was asked about availability and that’s all I really know. No time, location or anything like that.”

 

[A.Malik.77]

The gift that keeps on giving

I am not optimistic about the operations. If these issues are happening after thorough, months long testing, what issues will we be facing when it opens for service? How are these kinks not yet resolved? Why are new issues popping up so late in the game? Was the testing for show??

 

[Thaboss]

Emergency brake issue fuels uncertainty over Eglinton LRT opening - The Globe and Mail

Just days before a potential opening of the long-delayed Eglinton Crosstown light-rail line, Ontario’s Metrolinx agency and the Toronto Transit Commission were at odds over a small number of incidents in which the vehicles’ automatic emergency brakes appeared to activate for no reason.
Two sources with knowledge of the 11th-hour efforts to launch the 19-kilometre line − which has been under construction for 15 years, at a cost of $13-billion − said the TTC had recently identified the problem as a potential safety issue.
The sources said TTC officials had found that a handful of times in recent testing, what appeared to be random emergency braking had brought cars to a halt. The Globe and Mail is not identifying the sources, as they were not authorized to discuss internal deliberations.
By late Thursday afternoon, however, after meetings involving city officials, TTC brass and Metrolinx, the sources said technical explanations had been provided for the braking incidents, but would not elaborate. The two sources also said that Feb. 8 − Super Bowl Sunday − could still be the kickoff date for the Crosstown, although nothing official had been announced.
Asked whether the TTC had identified a safety issue with the Crosstown that could hold up the line’s launch, Metrolinx spokeswoman Lyndsay Miller referred The Globe’s questions to the TTC.
However, in an e-mail, she said that at a Jan. 20 meeting of top TTC and Metrolinx officials, the TTC had confirmed that “no safety critical issues were outstanding.” A thousand TTC and Metrolinx staff participated in a successful simulation of full operations last week, she added.
Ms. Miller also said that Metrolinx “has been working around the clock with the TTC to provide information and data in direct response to all TTC requests.”
The TTC did not immediately provide a comment. Alstom, the maker of the vehicles, declined to comment.
City officials had already undertaken planning for an event to commemorate the launch on Feb. 8. They had even approached local jazz-funk ensemble the Shuffle Demons to perform, 40 years after the release of their 1986 hit Spadina Bus, a rap-infused ode to the now-defunct TTC route.
The group’s Richard Underhill told The Globe that the band had not yet secured the gig and that he did not know where the ceremony would take place.
“As Trump might say, there is a concept of a plan. I was asked about availability and that’s all I really know. No time, location or anything like that.”

..soooo maybe, maybe not, maybe, maybe now feb 8th ?

Ttc is having cold feet because they know if they screw this up....Boi the heat on them will be hotter than hell itself.


Imo it seems like like 5 is a highly flawed product that may never run smoothly on the east end, no matter how much it gets tested. Obviously throwing it to the curb is not an option so imo unless there is a serious risk of injury, the line should open with acknowledgement of its numerous flaws.

As with most transit, things will improve overtime but to keep a functionally completed transit project from opening at this point is beyond insane.

 

[Richard White]

The gift that keeps on giving

I am not optimistic about the operations. If these issues are happening after thorough, months long testing, what issues will we be facing when it opens for service? How are these kinks not yet resolved? Why are new issues popping up so late in the game? Was the testing for show??

Next thing you know the brakes won't work.