Bordercollie
Senior Member
They should have stuck with Bombardier
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- Thread starter Monarch Butterfly
- Start date
urbanclient
Active Member
Good thing Bombardier didn't get bought out by the makers of the Citadis Spirit...right?
Bordercollie
Senior Member
But the fundamental design is very different.
urbanclient
Active Member
AFAIK, the Flexity Freedoms have been out of production for 5 years, to restart production would be infeasible at this point. It's not surprising that Alstom would push their own rolling stock family (which are usually quite good, except for the Spirits). Hamilton's LRT will likely be stuck with the defective Spirits as well... The province seems to be gearing up for Alstom Citadis streetcars as well (I speculate). I can only hope that they're not derived from the Spirits.
If you zoom in on the tram below, it's clearly an Alstom Citadis, dare I say, it looks identical to the Ottawa Spirits...
Bordercollie
Senior Member
That's not true. The TTC ordered 60 to augment their fleet and there have been Edmonton cars being built as well.
urbanclient
Active Member
I think you're mistaking the Flexity Outlook streetcars with the Freedoms for the 3 LRT lines in Canada:
Alstom signs contract to supply 60 new Flexity streetcars for the City of Toronto
2 June 2021 – Alstom will supply a total of 60 Flexity 100% low-floor, zero-emission light rail vehicles (LRVs) to the Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) in Ontario, Canada, under a contract valued at
Edmonton received its last Flexity Freedom for the Valley Line in Q1 2021. They ordered trams for the Valley Line extension from Hyundai Rotem in November 2021:
Light Rail Vehicle (LRV) Procurement | City of Edmonton
The Light Rail Vehicle (LRV) procurement process for the Valley Line West began in 2020.
All evidence points to the Flexity Freedoms being out of production, since the last were delivered in early 2021.
hw621
Senior Member
And some people on this forum are wondering why there is so much negativity towards these lines...
robmausser
Senior Member
Yep, Vision Zero is an incredibly emotionally charged and political propaganda speak. It has nothing to do with reason or logic. Its an emotional response to the assumption that it would be immoral to allow for absolutely any deaths ever, no matter how random and rare they were.
There's only one way to get to Vision Zero, if we all stay home and lock our doors. Total curfew.
White Pine
Active Member
Couldn't they just order the regular citadis for the streetcar fleet? I had thought that the spirit was modded for more subway-like service, and the mods wouldn't be needed on the streetcar network.
JSF-1
Active Member
It doesn't really matter in this case considering the Citadis Spirit cannot operate on the streetcar network since the vehicles are too large. They are both too wide and the modules are too long for the curves of the streetcar network. So either way Alstom will need to produce a custom fleet of Spirits (or Dualis which the Spirit is based off of) for the TTC with both narrower and shorter modules to cope with the networks tight turns. The TTC would be in the market for something similar to Sydney or Melbourne's Alstom's (with our own bespoke track-gauge of course).
smallspy
Senior Member
Sure, they probably could.
But that would be an even more customized vehicle than the ones built for Finch West, Hurontario, Ottawa, etc.
Dan
nfitz
Superstar
I guess we'll see, as surely for maintenance ease, they'll be wanting Flexity Freedoms for the Eglinton West extensions. I'd think that would become knowledge what they've selected sooner than later.
T3G
Senior Member
I think so too. If you wave a large enough bag of cash around restarting production probably won't be that big of a problem, hence why we were able to receive an additional 60 cars for the downtown network that were identical to what we ordered in 2009 (or why New York was able to keep receiving C40LF buses from New Flyer into 2012, despite the LF line being discontinued for the general shopping public in 2009).
smallspy
Senior Member
While you are right that it would help with maintenance tasks and planning I wouldn't assume they'll be getting more Flexities for the western extension.
Edmonton bought cars from a different vendor for the expansion of the Valley Line. And their two fleets are considerably smaller than the one needed for the Crosstown once its extended.
Dan
Steve X
Senior Member
I wonder if they’ll short turn some of the trains. Currently the 32A isn’t very frequent not a high ridership route in Etobicoke. Replacing it with a 4 minute train is overkill and hence why they didn’t build this segment initially.
Now that it’s a subway, it’s expected to move many riders from Northern Etobicoke going to line 2 to move to this line. Will that be enough to operate full service.
If they do short turn at Mount Dennis, they might not need more trains.
Now that it’s a subway, it’s expected to move many riders from Northern Etobicoke going to line 2 to move to this line. Will that be enough to operate full service.
If they do short turn at Mount Dennis, they might not need more trains.