[A 6264]

I might be getting a bit ahead of myself, but with Line 5 finally opening, I’ve started wondering about the western extension. Has the TTC released any information on likely bus route changes once it opens? The main alignment has been known for years now, which is why I’m asking at this stage.

The Western extention is planned for opening in 2031. Subject to change.

 

[A 6264]

I may go check out Line 5 some time on Sunday just to check out what the connection/infrastructure looks like so I don't experience it for the first time on Monday morning on my commute to work

I'm sure there will be some enthusiasts showing up to ride the first train. And document the first service interruptions. I live near one of the stations, so maybe I'll go, or maybe I won't. It will be cold on Sunday morning.

 

[nfitz]

What? We’ve all seen the footage of Line 6 waiting for cars to finish turning left. That’s the easiest signal priority to close off.

No, the easiest is the extended green - like you see all the time on streetcar routes for years. The priority for LRV going ahead before the turns is what they are trialling right now on Spadina, and hopefully is rolled out on Eglinton before the full opening.

 

[micheal_can]

No, the easiest is the extended green - like you see all the time on streetcar routes for years. The priority for LRV going ahead before the turns is what they are trialling right now on Spadina, and hopefully is rolled out on Eglinton before the full opening.

I could never understand why that wasn't done from the beginning. If done right, drivers would not be inconvenienced by it.

 

[EnviroTO]

I wasn't convinced that that the Eglinton line has any fundamental problems other than opening delays, but now I'm hearing there isn't LCD screens. I won't be caught dead on transit that is missing LCD screens. I need LCD screens like on the bus so I can see operator ID, the time, and if the stop button has been pressed. Without the big honking TTC logo on an LCD screen how will I now what brand of bus I just woke up on?

 

[Admiral Beez]

5 and 6 do have signal priority, it can hold greens for a limited time. You are looking for phase rotation, which is also a form of signal priority.

That’s just getting cute now. The minimum of TSP should be that no LRT is ever, never held back by a red traffic signal or an advanced left turn signal. How hard is it in this digital age (after just spending tens of billions on two LRT lines) to direct the traffic light to hold (or cycle to) green AND delay the advanced left turn if there’s a LRT approaching? Nothing of this should be aspirational or future planning.

 

[ThenWhat]

That was answered in the board meeting. The line was designed and built to support the TSP policy as it existed with the city at the time, which was for conditional priority only. As Mandeep Lali stated the policy hadn't been revised in many years and is now in the process of that revision (as directed by the TTC board and Council) with an emphasis on prioritizing transit vehicles.

Let's hope that the revision and the direction from the council will result in something meaningful for Line 5. But don't expect miracles. Implementing an aggressive TSP is made difficult by design choices that have already been made; one-stage pedestrian crossing, near-side stops, etc. It may also conflict with the city policies for easing traffic congestion.

There was a good informative presentation about TSP by Narayan Donaldson at this week's TTC board meeting. It shows what is or is not possible.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Let's hope that the revision and the direction from the council will result in something meaningful for Line 5. But don't expect miracles. Implementing an aggressive TSP is made difficult by design choices that have already been made; one-stage pedestrian crossing, near-side stops, etc.

What's the logic behind near-side stops? Perhaps the assumption is that the LRT (or streetcar for that matter) is already being held back by a traffic signal, so we might as well stop here to board? If so, it all starts with the original sin of ignoring the need for TSP.

 

[youngblood]

View attachment 713040

Link to the channel:

Alternate link

 

[lastcommodore]

That’s just getting cute now. The minimum of TSP should be that no LRT is ever, never held back by a red traffic signal or an advanced left turn signal. How hard is it in this digital age (after just spending tens of billions on two LRT lines) to direct the traffic light to hold (or cycle to) green AND delay the advanced left turn if there’s a LRT approaching? Nothing of this should be aspirational or future planning.

I am not sure how this is "cute", this is how TSP is defined and used- specifically that it is ANY MEASURE to reactively speed up transit, there is no minimum % of speed up required to be called TSP. This is precisely why its used less often in favour of more explicit terms like absolute TSP or strong TSP, where ATSP more accurately decribes "no LRT is ever, never held back by a red traffic signal or an advanced left turn signal"

You are free to tack on your minimum requirements on the definition of TSP, but you are going to start talking past others.

 

[81-717]

What? We’ve all seen the footage of Line 6 waiting for cars to finish turning left. That’s the easiest signal priority to close off.

I know this is a non-starter & would never happen, but it would be nice if buses could have TSP over cars as well, for the same reason of not inconveniencing dozens of people just to prioritize those in their personal cars.

 

[adys123]

I am not sure how this is "cute", this is how TSP is defined and used- specifically that it is ANY MEASURE to reactively speed up transit, there is no minimum % of speed up required to be called TSP. This is precisely why its used less often in favour of more explicit terms like absolute TSP or strong TSP, where ATSP more accurately decribes "no LRT is ever, never held back by a red traffic signal or an advanced left turn signal"

You are free to tack on your minimum requirements on the definition of TSP, but you are going to start talking past others.

Just to add to this, the "absolute priority" TSP that people refer to is more accurately known as signal pre-emption (see also transit and emergency vehicle pre-emption).

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

That’s just getting cute now. The minimum of TSP should be that no LRT is ever, never held back by a red traffic signal or an advanced left turn signal. How hard is it in this digital age (after just spending tens of billions on two LRT lines) to direct the traffic light to hold (or cycle to) green AND delay the advanced left turn if there’s a LRT approaching? Nothing of this should be aspirational or future planning.

But Doug Ford might be turning left, and we can't have him waiting as the peasants pass him. Same as why he vetoed the speed cameras, because he might be speeding.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Just to add to this, the "absolute priority" TSP that people refer to is more accurately known as signal pre-emption (see also transit and emergency vehicle pre-emption).

Signal pre-emption, yes that's what I'm thinking of. But that should be basic level TSP, nothing absolute or super level functionality there.

A LRT is approaching, change the signal to transit proceed, and when it's not approaching, leave the signals to function normally. Sounds basic to me.

 

[cplchanb]

so dougie confirmed there wont be any inquiry on the debacle....