[yrt+viva=1system]

My verdict:

This is how LRT should be operated and built. The Crosstown is far smoother and faster. This is as close to a European style LRT that Toronto has built to date. If more lines are proposed they better be built like the Crosstown and not a glorified modern updated streetcar that Finch West LRT really is.

Key notes:

-The Crosstown line hauls! Above ground and underground. Can’t wait until the speed increase. No slow operations across intersections in the above ground sections.

-Door operations in the underground sections is fast! I might say that the door operations is faster than the subway trains.

-Three train operations might be required soon.

-The Flexity is a far superior vehicle than the Citadis. Suspension on the truck/bogies gives a far more comfortable ride. The Citadis is like a box mattress, wooden and stiff.

-I suspect that the rail profile on the Crosstown is what the TTC uses. Also the wheel profile feels like it is the TTC’s streetcar wheel profile. Thus contributing to a smooth and airy ride.

-Rail is laid and bolted to a concreted trackbed. As opposed to the Finch West LRT which the rail is laid in a trough and is held in place with an epoxy.

-Passing over switches and interlockings are very smooth. Most likely attributed to the note above.

-For Infrastructure Geeks, the underground storage sections are very cool! Especially when passing a train on the far opposite tracks.

-We definitely need more LRT built as elevated sections like between Keelesdale and Mount Dennis.

 

[ARG1]

So tell me how grade level crossings with proper signal priority is functionally different?

Proper signal priority doesn't make a tram run at metro level speeds, nowhere in the world I can think of where that's the case unless it's in the stroadiest of stroads where it's basically a heavy rail line anyways. Most on street tram routes cap out at 25km/h average even with strong signal priority.

And no, there are those here complaining it should’ve been a subway regardless; be it capacity, stations, whatever.

Who? Most of the vocal advocates here use the terms metro and subway interchangeably. Subway to most people is just the North American word for metro, and doesn't actually have to be underground. The New York City "Subway" has far more above ground sections than underground.

 

[Bojaxs]

The yonge line is currently at capacity; I guess we should’ve built catapults?

Build more subways.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

 

[EnviroTO]

Guess I was correct about using the orange border for showing that the station is under ongoing Ontario Line 3 construction...

Interesting to see that Don Valley has morphed into a Metrolinx wayfinding hybrid.

I was wondering what that border was all about because it made no sense from a wayfinding perspective... it is the way to denote temporary / detour routes. Makes sense.

 

[dougtoronto]

One question that remains for me is, are we stuck using coupled cars forever? Or could we eventually switch to one long subway train-like vehicle?

 

[lastcommodore]

One question that remains for me is, are we stuck using coupled cars forever? Or could we eventually switch to one long subway train-like vehicle?

To be completely honest, I'm not entirely sure why the trains are semi-coupled in the first place... There is zero chance they will be de-coupled as only one end has a proper cab, and I don't see them cannibalising the rolling stock to have fewer trains but more cap/train for no total change in cap.

There is a funny situation I saw on day one where people spread out along the platform, and when the train came, those standing along the last third of the platform, where there was no train, came running to the 2nd train, so the last train was always more packed than the first. I suspect riders will adapt, but I think that will continue to happen, if in smaller amts.

I think the TTC can help the image of line 5 a lot if they went with a tram that looked more like a typical subway rolling stock with open gangways the entire way rather than the exact same rolling stock on the streetcars... Something like the Boston Green or CTrain rolling stock. Easier said than done though, given Alstom seems to dominate here.

 

[robmausser]

One question that remains for me is, are we stuck using coupled cars forever? Or could we eventually switch to one long subway train-like vehicle?

Coupling is very common in LRT systems.

When we want to extend the trains to fit the whole platform, we can use 2 Alstom Citiadis. They are longer than the current Flexities.

We will basically have to, or procure another tram, as the Flexity Freedoms are no longer being made. It would make sense to go with Citadis (as long as they can prove that they fix the current issues with them) because we are using them on Finch and Hurontario. Better to keep to one vehicle for maintenance etc.

Now, to answer your question, the issue is that a 3 car train wont fit in the maintenance facility. So one long subway style train won't work.

 

[Westey]

That deal had the Sheppard East and Finch West LRTs dropped in exchange for the burial of Eglinton.

The city reverted to Finch and Sheppard instead. Of course Sheppard ending up quietly disappearing in 2019 with Ford rising to Queen's Park.

Had the 2012 Rob Ford plan stuck, Eglinton would have been fully underground to Kennedy then through-run with the rebuilt SRT as an LRT up to Sheppard and Markham Road. Finch also wouldn't have happened.

Each of Finch and Sheppard were pegged at about $1B each back in the day.
So to avoid spending the extra $2B on Eglinton, we are now extending the B-D line for $10B.
Penny wise pound foolish.
The fact that as soon as the Eglinton LRT was reverted to on-street LRT that the Liberals campaigned as the Scarborough Subway Champions tells you all you need to know that the cancellation was purely political (to defeat Ford) and not for transit reasons or fiscal reasons.

 

[JSF-1]

There is a funny situation I saw on day one where people spread out along the platform, and when the train came, those standing along the last third of the platform, where there was no train, came running to the 2nd train, so the last train was always more packed than the first. I suspect riders will adapt, but I think that will continue to happen, if in smaller amts.

This issue could be solved by putting down boarding markers on the platform like at some of the subway stations. Since the line is automated through the underground portion the trains will always stop at the same place. It may be a bit more dicey on the surface portion due to the weather ruining the decals but I think operators do a good enough job stopping the in the proper positions.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Who? Most of the vocal advocates here use the terms metro and subway interchangeably. Subway to most people is just the North American word for metro, and doesn't actually have to be underground. The New York City "Subway" has far more above ground sections than underground.

Indeed. The reframing of this discussion from "subway vs LRT" to "heavy metro vs light metro" would be better.

There is a genuine argument to be had that Eglinton should have been built as heavy metro, however that looks like in terms of rolling stock or technology.

If the Crosstown was cancelled under Rob Ford for being called an LRT, and resurfaced as an approved project in the 2020s, then I am sure it would be planned with the same rolling stock and capacity demands as the Ontario Line.

 

[81-717]

a tram that looked more like a typical subway rolling stock

No such thing. Any line that uses tramlike vehicles is an LRT, not a subway or even a light metro.

with open gangways the entire way

Also not exactly the "typical" subway look, despite becoming overwhelmingly common, the "typical" subway look is still that of the H/T1-series, despite being phased out.

 

[Voltz]

We will basically have to, or procure another tram, as the Flexity Freedoms are no longer being made

This keeps being brought up, but are the Citiadis's being made currently either? There is not enough demand for this type of vehicle to stay in continuous production. If an agency wants to order them then they can make them.

Hopefully Metrolinx uses a bit of thought with this.

 

[ssiguy2]

This lack of signal priority is made more difficult due to these damn left-hand turns. Now, ML seems surprised that it is a problem. When it comes to infrastructure there is no such thing as a surprise but rather just a lack of forethought. Had they had any at all, they would have implemented Michigan/LA turning systems where, in the middle of the block, cars are allowed to U-turn over the tracks controlled by traffic lights. If a car needs to turn left at a light, they cannot but rather go straight thru the light and then do a U-turn in the middle of the block and then go back and turn right.

These are used all over the place and are a success in so many ways. They make TSP easier to implement, traffic flow actually increases, and have been shown to be safer for both pedestrians and cyclists at intersections. It's not rocket science or even marginally novel but somehow the idea of it never even crossed ML's mind. They are also quite cheap and easy to construct IF they are incorporated into the design in the first place much like elevators.........easy and relatively cheap to incorporate into a station design but vastly more expensive and disruptive if you have to do it after the the station is built.

ML has shown such incompetence from word-go it's hard to know where to start and much of this is due to the fact that ML is accountable to no one and it shows. Unfortunately, due to this, the saga continues................GO electrification, according to ML's own "timetable" from years ago, GO RER was suppose to already be completed electrified and stood by this assertion until last year even though not a single pole has materialized. When the system is designed to have no one answerable to anybody, timelines and budgets are just viewed as suggestions and the needs of the travelling public are viewed with supreme indifference.

 

[11th]

Most of us are talking about grade separation, not just burying it. Kyoto doesn't use above ground trams that go through traffic lights for mass transit. They only have two tiny lines that are mostly used for tourism and as a historic remnant.

I would add that the above ground trains in Kyoto are functionally metro/RER lines - heavy rail lines. They had (through elevating and tunnelling) and are also undergoing grade separation on some sections.