News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 02, 2020
A Message to Our Readers
 11K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
EarthCam Time-Lapse Documents Rafael Viñoly-Designed New Stanford Hospital Construction
 43K     0 
News   GLOBAL  |  Apr 01, 2020
Resort Town
 6.6K     0 
Amare said:
Yes, but that's in the past and we cant change that.

What can be changed is the future, we're talking about the facts of what we know about the Citadis today. We have pure and concrete evidence that the Citadis is deficient in varying ways, and Metrolinx and the province are tuning a blind eye and acting like there are no issues. To the point that they are perfectly content with procuring more of them for Hamilton.

Why would Alstom be incentivized to fix the issues, when the government is handing them more money and they dont have to do a lick of anything to fix the issues.
Click to expand...

Not only that but at the end of the day I bet if shit hit the fan Alstom will just point to the fact that the trains only exist because MX asked for them to make them that way.
 
Last edited:
I came across this blog which has some information on the Alstom Citadis and also a comparison with the trams which it is based off. It's a fascinating read if one is intrigued about the Citadis' origins:

https://manifestomultilinko2.wordpr...l-citadis-x01-paris-dualis-and-ottawa-spirit/

Table 2. Differences between 3 Alstom light rail vehicle designs
ItemIstanbul
(Citadis X01)		Paris
(Citadis Dualis)		Ottawa
(Citadis Spirit)
No. of axles61010
No. of motor bogies233
No. of trailer bogies122
LRV length28 m42 m48 m
LRV empty weight42 tons77 tons81 tons
LRV loaded weight57 tons99 tons113 tons
Bogie typeIxègeIxègeIponam
Bogie frameRigidRigidArticulated
SuspensionRubberRubberSteel spring and air cushion
MotorPermanent magnet motor (PMM)*PMMInduction**
* A permanent magnet motor (PMM) is a synchronous speed electric motor that rotates at constant speed (rpm) and has a uniform torque.

** An induction motor is an asynchronous speed electric motor that can produce more power and has higher torque at lower rpms than a PMM. Multiple stop-starts using induction motors can introduce higher stress and torque fluctuations on the drivetrain elements.
Click to expand...


Some discussion on rails and vibrations:

  1. The choice of rails and guideway design should only have taken place after the vehicle was selected.
“A light rail vehicle running consistently on heavy rail gives you problems. The light rail vehicle can’t condition the railhead, and because it’s not being conditioned by that vehicle, you have to do more frequent rail grinding, and if you don’t, you run the risk of suffering from rail breaks.
…
The other concern with that particular rail type is that it’s a very hard rail, so it’s not absorbing the vibration from the train because the train is not heavy enough to actually push the vibration in. So effectively all that vibration stays back with the rail vehicle.” – Transcripts of Formal Interviews – SEMP Ltd. – Derek Wynne – May 11, 2022

“The root-cause analysis demonstrates that the actual design of the track generates excessive transversal loads/forces that causes excessive fretting under the bearing of the axle. … The axial clearance is occurring on the Ottawa fleet at an accelerated an unprecedented rate with severe consequences not experienced on any other ALSTOM product operating with the same concept elsewhere in the world.” – Exhibit 091 – Alstom LRV 1119 Derailment Investigation Report 10 May 2022

“Corrugation has been observed to be present by Mott MacDonald and by Project Co on both rails of the tight radius curves on the Confederation Line. Corrugation is the periodic wear of the rail surface into peaks and troughs. This uneven surface results in high forces between rail and wheel that increases the severity of the corrugation and can result in damage to both track and vehicle.” – External evidence: City of Ottawa – Mott MacDonald – Ottawa LRT Independent Review Report, April 2022 – Volume 3: Track and Rail Systems, 3.1.3 Rail Corrugation and Rolling Contact Fatigue https://documents.ottawa.ca/sites/d...anada Ltd - Ottawa LRT Independent Review.pdf
Click to expand...

https://manifestomultilinko2.wordpr...es-with-ottawas-line-1-train-and-rails/#rails
 
Last edited:
robmausser said:
Its more than they are garbage, which they are. They are the wrong vehicle for the job. They were a Frankenstein LRT on steroids for what should have been a Metro line in Ottawa. Rather than start over, MX convinced Alstom to make basically an "LRT worthy of a metro line" Frankentrain. Which failed to do its job properly, but that was it's intent.

Do you know how idiotic it is to then take a train designed for that task and put it on effectively a streetcar route? With sharp turns that the train struggles to traverse, overhead that doesn't provide enough voltage for the train, and red lights and stops every 100 feet that a heavy train struggles to speed up and slow down from?

Literally the worst tool for the job.

Not to mention that the Finch line was delayed anyways, and had we just waited for the Flexities from Bombardier they would have technically arrived on time.
Click to expand...
I wonder did some of them have flat spots from the winter braking? I heard clunk thud and it'd speed up and slow down with the vehicle
 
Mx CEO, Michael Lindsay speaking on Finch this morning, at the Mx Board Meeting:


Overall, I though he glossed over issues on Finch a bit, but he did tackle the issue of winter maintenance and switch heaters. Didn't discuss yesterday's overhead issues.
 
In regards to the rail noise on Line 6 being worse than line 5, I was thinking of another example how trains running on the Sheppard line sound different than line 1 even though the rolling stock is the same.

This probably has to do with the way the concrete vibrates is different between the two.

Could the design difference cause the track to feel less smooth on line 6? As opposed to the rolling stock?

I don't find the Ottawa cars to be as harsh a ride as line 6.

Also do know why line 6 has a slower operating speed than line 5 even in above ground sections?
 
PL1 said:
What were they testing when they "tested" Line 6? Surely some of these failures should have shown up...
Click to expand...
The problem really comes down to, as others have identified above, the vehicles. They're not reliable, and Metrolinx really messed up choosing them over Flexities just cause they were worried the Flexities wouldn't be on time.... it's not a good sign for the Hazel McCallion Line that both Ottawa and Finch have had these vehicles fail, miserably. I just feel like Line 6 is about the next SRT with all these issues with the line.
 
thettctransitfanatic said:
The problem really comes down to, as others have identified above, the vehicles. They're not reliable, and Metrolinx really messed up choosing them over Flexities just cause they were worried the Flexities wouldn't be on time.... it's not a good sign for the Hazel McCallion Line that both Ottawa and Finch have had these vehicles fail, miserably. I just feel like Line 6 is about the next SRT with all these issues with the line.
Click to expand...
I wonder if it's true the Humber college curve was built too tight despite the vehicles being built years after it was designed.
 
thettctransitfanatic said:
The problem really comes down to, as others have identified above, the vehicles. They're not reliable, and Metrolinx really messed up choosing them over Flexities just cause they were worried the Flexities wouldn't be on time.... it's not a good sign for the Hazel McCallion Line that both Ottawa and Finch have had these vehicles fail, miserably. I just feel like Line 6 is about the next SRT with all these issues with the line.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't be a bad idea for Line 6 to be the next SRT. Maybe then, we can actually improve transit on the corridor by getting rid of the dysfunctional tram line that made both transit worse and slower and road conditions worse and slower, decreasing the quality of commutes for everyone, and hopefully kill the idea of surface LRTs (garbage) ever being built in our city in our lifetimes.

Two Line 5 Shuttles zoomed me by on the surface section of the LRT today. On Tuesday's commute, I'm actually just going to take the bus instead. Nobody I know sees this and thinks "Oh, this line is a good reason for me to not drive" unlike how they view Lines 1 and 2 and they actually use that instead of driving.

As for signal priority, I'm sure the city will botch it given it's track record, and even if they improve it, can still in theory be removed if a future Provincial or local government thinks that it impedes traffic especially as traffic worsens in the decades ahead.

I've spoken out against them to the city and provincial government, got many more people to do so, and I will continue to do my part to ensure we don't deteriorate our city with half measures (that are actually taking us back half way rather than forward) just to please the few that have convinced themselves that oversized streetcars are somehow "a solution to our transit crisis".
 
Last edited by a moderator:
How can LRT in its own ROW be slower than buses in mixed traffic?

Identify a list of reasons and provide solutions for each item on the list.

None of the solutions will be easy but this is critical for the success of both Lines 6 and the future Line 10. Surely, it is not just the vehicles.

As an Ottawan, I am p*ssed about these trains but I am hopeful for the long-term future.

This is a cautionary tale of operating LRVs as trams in the 21st century. There needs to be grade separation or just use the improved ROW for BRT.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top