[Bordercollie]

Town of Georgina petitions province for Northlander stop in Pefferlaw » Georgina Post

By Mike Anderson The Town of Georgina has petitioned the province to add a stop in Pefferlaw as part of a future expansion of the Northlander passenger rail service, which is slated to resume in 2026. The Northlander’s proposed 740-kilometre route runs from Toronto’s Union Station to Timmins...

georginapost.com

In the summer when the Siemens equipment is more reliable, they could swap them with F40's and budds and rebuild or overhaul the RDC'S.

 

[NorthernTracks]

I'm surprised it doesn't ask for the service to go all the way to TBay or even Winnipeg.

It seems that AI doesn't realize that this would have nothing to do with the ONR, and that VIA gets to do exactly what the federal government allows it to do.

I'm honestly surprised that the Sudbury-White River service still exists. Other than back country tourists and outfitters, I wonder what the resident remote population is. according to Wiki, Biscotasing, one of the few non-road-served communities, has a population of 22.

It appears VIA Rail & the Feds may have a different set of criteria now regarding rural/remote services, at least according to their report to Parliament in 2024-2025.
www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/pdfs/access-to-information/ANNUAL%20REPORT%20ATI%202024-2025_FINAL_COMPLETE.pdf#page=4

Mandatory Services
VIA Rail also provides a passenger service in several rural and remote regions of Canada. Mandated by the Government of Canada to meet essential transportation needs, these trains serve many communities where alternative, year-round transportation is limited or unavailable

In the off season, people from Chapleau, Dubreuilville (Franz) White River are using the train for medical visits in Sudbury or for travel to access post secondary education. There are workers who use the SWRT to access remote work sites in the region.
I use the train every other month or so to get to North Bay (via Sudbury), even though I live in Thunder Bay. There may be roads into places like Biscotasing, but they're not necessarily publicly maintained.

My biggest complaint (and what prompted me to write this column) is that it would not be unreasonable for the company to have standby equipment to avoid service disruptions, as is the case with other modes of public transportation. VIA Rail doesn't on this route, and both the company and the Federal government are at fault here. 25 days without service isn't a duration of time people should have to make due with.

 

[lenaitch]

In the summer when the Siemens equipment is more reliable, they could swap them with F40's and budds and rebuild or overhaul the RDC'S.

What does that have to do with Georgina wanting a station stop. On that note, if a station stop on the east side of Lake Simcoe was deemed desirable, I doubt Pefferlaw would be on the list of suitable candidates.

Should the province just take it over then?That may prevent the Federal Government walk away from rail services.

Expanding provincial rail service beyond ONRs footprint is an entire other topic in itself that you are free to champion.

It appears VIA Rail & the Feds may have a different set of criteria now regarding rural/remote services, at least according to their report to Parliament in 2024-2025.
www.viarail.ca/sites/all/files/media/pdfs/access-to-information/ANNUAL%20REPORT%20ATI%202024-2025_FINAL_COMPLETE.pdf#page=4



In the off season, people from Chapleau, Dubreuilville (Franz) White River are using the train for medical visits in Sudbury or for travel to access post secondary education. There are workers who use the SWRT to access remote work sites in the region.
I use the train every other month or so to get to North Bay (via Sudbury), even though I live in Thunder Bay. There may be roads into places like Biscotasing, but they're not necessarily publicly maintained.

My biggest complaint (and what prompted me to write this column) is that it would not be unreasonable for the company to have standby equipment to avoid service disruptions, as is the case with other modes of public transportation. VIA Rail doesn't on this route, and both the company and the Federal government are at fault here. 25 days without service isn't a duration of time people should have to make due with.

The problem with VIA is its mandate is it is exactly what the government says it is. it has no enabling legislation; it and its services exist at the whim of Cabinet. It might want to have standby equipment equipment but if it doesn't have the funding or available equipment, what's to do? It is somewhat similar to 'suspended' services in Vancouver Island and Gaspe - VIA has no capacity to control the continuation of its service and federal government seems to be okay with that.


Access/proximity to complex or advanced medical care is an issue in many remote areas. Having said that, other than FNs, I'm not sure that is a federal problem to solve.

 

[micheal_can]

Town of Georgina petitions province for Northlander stop in Pefferlaw » Georgina Post

By Mike Anderson The Town of Georgina has petitioned the province to add a stop in Pefferlaw as part of a future expansion of the Northlander passenger rail service, which is slated to resume in 2026. The Northlander’s proposed 740-kilometre route runs from Toronto’s Union Station to Timmins...

georginapost.com

Sounds like a great place to put a new GO station.

Expanding provincial rail service beyond ONRs footprint is an entire other topic in itself that you are free to champion.

I have been. TBH, it does not matter who runs it to me, just that a service that I feel is needed is put in. A train that connect Sudbury to the Northlander does make sense to me.

An alternative to extending the Budd car would be to run a North Bay - Sudbury - SSM train. You achieve the same thing as the petition, and you give service to the North Shore. The Highway 17 corridor from SSM to North Bay is one of the most populated areas in Northern ON. The fact that it would use the Sudbury Downtown Via station would allow the connection to the Budd service. It is my hope that in about 5 years from now, with the success of the return of the Northlander, we see something along this corridor.

Access/proximity to complex or advanced medical care is an issue in many remote areas. Having said that, other than FNs, I'm not sure that is a federal problem to solve.

The feds throw money at transit projects to ease congestion. The feds throw money at highway expansions to make them safe. The feds could justify this, if they wanted to. It doesn't hurt that some of the ridings are red, or were red before the last election.

 

[lenaitch]

Sounds like a great place to put a new GO station.

I/we have no clue what MX's long term plans are, and it's been a couple of years since I wandered through north York and Durham, but it doesn't strike me as much of a place for a commuter rail stop. Georgina's population has grown by 50% since the early 1990s, but most of it has been on the west closer to Newmarket, well served by the Barrie line and even the GO Bloomington station. The eastern part of Georgina and into Brock Township remains decidedly rural. I would be a fan of a Beaverton or Brechin stop on the Northlander route as a replacement for Washago, to serve Orillia and even draw some ridership from the City of Kawartha Lakes, but Pefferlaw is too far south for that. Future growth would depend on York and Durham's official plans and their ability to service the growth.

Alas, there is a thread for that.

The feds throw money at transit projects to ease congestion. The feds throw money at highway expansions to make them safe. The feds could justify this, if they wanted to. It doesn't hurt that some of the ridings are red, or were red before the last election.

They throw money at provinces to placate them. They throw money into healthcare as part of the Canada Health Act funding agreement. If improved rail service could be made on a healthcare delivery basis, I'm sure the province would make the argument.

 

[micheal_can]

I/we have no clue what MX's long term plans are, and it's been a couple of years since I wandered through north York and Durham, but it doesn't strike me as much of a place for a commuter rail stop. Georgina's population has grown by 50% since the early 1990s, but most of it has been on the west closer to Newmarket, well served by the Barrie line and even the GO Bloomington station. The eastern part of Georgina and into Brock Township remains decidedly rural. I would be a fan of a Beaverton or Brechin stop on the Northlander route as a replacement for Washago, to serve Orillia and even draw some ridership from the City of Kawartha Lakes, but Pefferlaw is too far south for that. Future growth would depend on York and Durham's official plans and their ability to service the growth.

Alas, there is a thread for that.

We can talk ad nauseam here about a Georgina GO stop, but the short answer is this train is supposed to provide a reasonably fast service into Toronto from the 'hinterland'. Stopping at every place in southern ON/GTA on its way is not serving the need well. But, a GO train would likely fit the bill.

They throw money at provinces to placate them. They throw money into healthcare as part of the Canada Health Act funding agreement. If improved rail service could be made on a healthcare delivery basis, I'm sure the province would make the argument.

There are so many reasons politicians stand for those photo ops.It is just a matter of whether they can make an excuse. I will wait a few years to see how popular the Northlander becomes before I will direct my whining towards some sort of expansion elsewhere. I feel that making the case for a SSM - Toronto train is easy enough if the Northlander is successful.

 

[NorthernTracks]

We can talk ad nauseam here about a Georgina GO stop, but the short answer is this train is supposed to provide a reasonably fast service into Toronto from the 'hinterland'. Stopping at every place in southern ON/GTA on its way is not serving the need well. But, a GO train would likely fit the bill.



There are so many reasons politicians stand for those photo ops.It is just a matter of whether they can make an excuse. I will wait a few years to see how popular the Northlander becomes before I will direct my whining towards some sort of expansion elsewhere. I feel that making the case for a SSM - Toronto train is easy enough if the Northlander is successful.

On paper, a train to Sault-Ste-Marie makes sense. There are several small and midsized communities (for Northern Ontario) along the route. A large city at each end of the Huron Central.

In practice though, the line isn't even close to being passenger rail ready. An article from 2020 revealed that the track speeds on the Huron Central were 25 mph, with many areas being as low as 10 mph. Not exactly competitive. The HCRY hasn't hosted a passenger train since the late 1970s.

Huron Central Railway faces uncertain future—again - The Manitoulin Expositor Local

Huron Central Railway faces uncertain future—again The Manitoulin Expositor Local -

www.manitoulin.com

The line isn't even publicly owned. Someone in government with some serious pull would have to champion this cause.

 

[lenaitch]

I will wait a few years to see how popular the Northlander becomes before I will direct my whining towards some sort of expansion elsewhere.

Please.

 

[lenaitch]

The line isn't even publicly owned. Someone in government with some serious pull would have to champion this cause.

As well as the OVR section between Sudbury and North Bay (albeit in better shape).

With the loss of the mill in Espanola, the future of the HCR is even more questionable. Perhaps the recent trade spat with the US and the move for greater domestic content will help Algoma Steel move products domestically rather than across the border might improve line traffic volumes. Otherwise, keeping the line solely for light passenger service makes no sense.

 

[crs1026]

Also keep in mind that while Ontario dug deep to fund the one service (ie the Northlander), going back and looking for additional tranches to add other routes may not be as easy.

The Northlander may need to be overwhelmingly successful and/or other northern MPPs may need to be just as well placed as Vic Fedeli to make that happen.

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

On paper, a train to Sault-Ste-Marie makes sense. There are several small and midsized communities (for Northern Ontario) along the route. A large city at each end of the Huron Central.

In practice though, the line isn't even close to being passenger rail ready. An article from 2020 revealed that the track speeds on the Huron Central were 25 mph, with many areas being as low as 10 mph. Not exactly competitive. The HCRY hasn't hosted a passenger train since the late 1970s.

Huron Central Railway faces uncertain future—again - The Manitoulin Expositor Local

Huron Central Railway faces uncertain future—again The Manitoulin Expositor Local -

www.manitoulin.com

The line isn't even publicly owned. Someone in government with some serious pull would have to champion this cause.

As well as the OVR section between Sudbury and North Bay (albeit in better shape).

With the loss of the mill in Espanola, the future of the HCR is even more questionable. Perhaps the recent trade spat with the US and the move for greater domestic content will help Algoma Steel move products domestically rather than across the border might improve line traffic volumes. Otherwise, keeping the line solely for light passenger service makes no sense.

You both hit on a reason we might see the funding for it. Previously HCR asked the province for money to continue to operate. They got it. So, the province could have some sort of agreement where they pay for the necessary upgrades and running rights ar just given. It wouldn't be that hard to time the passenger train with the freight.

Also keep in mind that while Ontario dug deep to fund the one service (ie the Northlander), going back and looking for additional tranches to add other routes may not be as easy.

The Northlander may need to be overwhelmingly successful and/or other northern MPPs may need to be just as well placed as Vic Fedeli to make that happen.

- Paul

I do feel those ridings that went PC did help the case for it more than much else. SSM was PC so it can be a gesture to them. Sudbury likely will never go PC so, that is an issue politically. However, politics shouldn't matter. If the government says that they represent everyone than who we voted for should have no bearing on what we get.I know it does, but it shouldn't.

None of this wouldn't be an issue if the existing Canadian was a train that ran more often and could be somewhat reliable.

 

[lenaitch]

Also keep in mind that while Ontario dug deep to fund the one service (ie the Northlander), going back and looking for additional tranches to add other routes may not be as easy.

The Northlander may need to be overwhelmingly successful and/or other northern MPPs may need to be just as well placed as Vic Fedeli to make that happen.

- Paul

A service that they own, which used to exist until cancelled by a previous government, and runs on infrastructure that they at least partially own.

You both hit on a reason we might see the funding for it. Previously HCR asked the province for money to continue to operate. They got it. So, the province could have some sort of agreement where they pay for the necessary upgrades and running rights ar just given. It wouldn't be that hard to time the passenger train with the freight.

You are missing the point that if the line is not commercially viable; i.e. freight, then it makes absolutely no sense to maintain it solely for passenger service. We don't know the future of the line. It's been on live support for years and just lost a major customer. Would Yes, the Ontario government tossed them money a few years ago. I don't know what terms, if any, were imposed with the funding. I suspect none, and if OVR winds up tomorrow, the government may whine but I suspect there is little they could do to recoup their 'investiment'. Would they pick up the lease from CPKC? I highly doubt it.

None of this wouldn't be an issue if the existing Canadian was a train that ran more often and could be somewhat reliable.

That wouldn't do SSM or the north shore much good.

 

[Allandale25]

Speaking of Siemens equipment, I saw a post online that UP refused to pickup the second trainset for two weeks because of defects.

 

[micheal_can]

You are missing the point that if the line is not commercially viable; i.e. freight, then it makes absolutely no sense to maintain it solely for passenger service. We don't know the future of the line. It's been on live support for years and just lost a major customer. Would Yes, the Ontario government tossed them money a few years ago. I don't know what terms, if any, were imposed with the funding. I suspect none, and if OVR winds up tomorrow, the government may whine but I suspect there is little they could do to recoup their 'investiment'. Would they pick up the lease from CPKC? I highly doubt it.

I would not suggest to maintain it solely for passenger service. If no freight is using it then it may not be worth it being active. However, The old Domtar mill in Espanola has been bought and they are going to make biochar there, so there may still be a need for rail operations. What is really needed is some sort of push along the HCR and OVR for some rail dependent businesses to open up.

That wouldn't do SSM or the north shore much good.

True, but it goes back to the original desire to connect to the Northlander.

 

[lenaitch]

What is really needed is some sort of push along the HCR and OVR for some rail dependent businesses to open up.

There is very little any government can do to encourage that short of literally paying them to be there. Heavy industry wants to be near raw materials and/or market (and an employable level of population). Forestry certainly isn't in an expansionist era. There hasn't been much in the way of mining since copper around Bruce Mines in the 1800s. Even when Elliot Lake was a mining town it wasn't rail connected. Mining only needs rail when its output is measured in tons, not pounds or ounces.