[reaperexpress]

This is fair, i was operating under the assumption that the battery would be charged via catenary and not by the 2nd diesel engine or regenerative braking, or that the loco would not have enough time operating under 50% output to charge the battery. But this still runs into the issue i expand on below... To run the engine at medium power and max out electric engine, would be a downgrade in power from current MP54ACs.

The only time the battery needs to be used is under acceleration (i.e. whenever you want more than 2MW of output), which is much less than half the time considering the trains also need to travel at constant speed, decelerate (which charges the battery as well), and stand still at stations. It doesn't take anywhere near 2MW for a GO train to cruise at constant speed.

I am on team EDMU over BEMU as well, although i have trouble calling this an EDMU at all. I don't think this applies to this situation... This is more a electro-diesel locomotive, if that. This is more equivalent to having a diesel locomotive and an electric locomotive on the same train.

Agreed, based on the diagrams this is not a dual-mode locomotive, but rather an ordinary diesel-electric locomotive with a battery for extra power. Or in other words, a hybrid.

For reference, the current MP54AC's are 2x2MW ICE. This "MP54ACE" is proposing 1x2MW ICE + 1x2MW battery. In other words, this MP54ACE's acceleration would be half as powerful if driven as electric than the MP54AC (2MW electric vs. 4MW diesel). Realistically, under operation both the ICE and battery would be operating, and when coasting under 50% utilisation, the ICE would recharge the battery.

Even then, this design wont improve acceleration at all. the engine output is the same under both scenarios, 4MW, and the body is the same, so same traction

Compare that to the Siemens Chargers, which the diesel-only variants hit 3.1MW, and the electro-diesel ones hit... 3.1MW ICE, 4.2MW electric. You can't operate both at the same time, as far as i'm aware- it's either running as a diesel or running electric.

Basically, i think this is at best a sidegrade for the user experience. While it gives a lot back in efficiency and reduced volume near stations, it would still be running diesel even in acceleration because the battery engine alone is not powerful enough to replace the diesel engine. Even in tandem, the power output is the same as a diesel variant.

I think your math seems plausible. I agree with your hypothesis that the train would not provide any noticeable improvement in user experience compared to the current 2x2MW ICE setup. It would not accelerate any faster, the only difference would be that it consumes less fuel.

In my opinion, the best option would be to build a power car, so you have the power car and the locomotive. This would mean under diesel the locomotive is hauling around a power car for nothing, but under electric it's able to draw much more power and utilise both power car and locomotive for even more traction and output. You also don't need to reduce the power of the main diesel locomotive, while not needing to run diesel on acceleration.

Yes if their goal was to actually improve travel times, it would be ideal to create a motorized coach with batteries that could link to the locomotive, similar to the setup on the upcoming dual-mode Amtrak Airo sets for the Empire / Maple Leaf / Adirondack corridor. That would double the number of powered axles from 4 to 8 and add the battery power in addition to the full power of the locomotive. The locomotive link would allow all 8 powered axles to provide regenerative braking power to the batteries.

But based on how GO assembles their trainsets, their objective seems to be to minimize operating expenses rather than attracting more riders. They seem to be satisfied with the absolutely glacial acceleration of the current trains.

 

[ssiguy2]

Yes, the current acceleration on the GO fleet is anemic but one has to remember that on the RER sections, GO will not be running the 12 car monsters they have now but probably 4 or 5 car trains so acceleration will improve.

The benefit of these EDMU/Loco is that their efficiency and operational performance will improve while prices actually go down. In 10 years when batteries have twice the power density but weigh half as much, the amount of diesel required will continue to decline, as will the size of the diesel engine, and the number and weight of the batteries.

By 2050 it is very possible that the size of the diesel engines won't be much larger than one for a car. The battery technology will have progressed so far, that the engine's sole purpose will simply be to continually charge the batteries, No expensive or weather sensitive catenary for EMUs while no range anxiety or recharging infrastructure of the BEMU. They could even be 100% clean if, instead of using small diesel engines, they used alternative bio-fuels.

BTW..........There are numerous ED locos already and the Netherlands runs EDMUs on regular routes. Stadler sells them as WINK trains which is part of the FLIRT family.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Repainted F59 in the wild

 

[APTA-2048]

Repainted F59 in the wild

Can’t wait to see one paired with a refurbished classic cab car. That’ll look quite odd.

 

[cplchanb]

Can’t wait to see one paired with a refurbished classic cab car. That’ll look quite odd.

im just waiting for a day when GO can get themselves together to put together sets that all have the same livery. Rainbow sets just looks so disorganized and its not like they have a shortage of coaches to begin with.

 

[crs1026]

im just waiting for a day when GO can get themselves together to put together sets that all have the same livery. Rainbow sets just looks so disorganized and its not like they have a shortage of coaches to begin with.

I suppose it's time to grant a Statute of Limitations for ML branding. When ML announced its change of livery in 2017, then-premier Wynne promised that the new branding would be phased in only when needed, and there would be no wasteful repainting of the fleet ahead of actual need.

That's one of the few promises that anyone connected with ML or government management of transit has kept - for almost a full decade now.

Anything we see in the old green and white has carried its old scheme paint for that decade. ML can probably accelerate repaininting at this point without anyone crying foul.

- Paul

 

[T3G]

^Respectfully, I disagree. I think the quoted timeframe for intervals in between coaches being refurbished is 20 years (historically, at least, they tend to have followed this interval), and there's still a lot of BiLevels from the last order (2013-14) that haven't run up that timeframe yet. If the repainting is done as part of a refurb program then by all means, but the last thing I want to see ML spend money on, besides voice generation software, is in unnecessary repaints of coaches. There's not a small amount of coaches still left in the old livery and I would much rather they patch up their service wherever possible. Having a train of coaches all in one colour does nothing to help me get to school faster.

For some numbers: the contract they put out at the end of 2022 to repaint a whole bunch of rail equipment was valued at $18 million. That is not a small amount of money for a self indulgent branding exercise, and would be a particularly bad look currently with the daily bus cancellations. This should not be, remotely, a priority.

Metrolinx - Abstract - RQQ-2022-LCLO-694 - Rqq-2022-lclo-694: Painting Services For Bi-level Rail Coaches & Other Rail Eqpt

www.metrolinx.merx.com

 

[crs1026]

For some numbers: the contract they put out at the end of 2022 to repaint a whole bunch of rail equipment was valued at $18 million. That is not a small amount of money for a self indulgent branding exercise, and would be a particularly bad look currently with the daily bus cancellations. This should not be, remotely, a priority.

That video drive-by of Willowbrook is an interesting bit of data. I counted 43 coaches in the new paint, 12 in the old. Obviously my count is a small and possibly unrepresentative sample but it does hint that the bulk of the fleet is now in the new paint. I don't favour waste either, but at some point I'd declare victory and not begrudge the small amount (when it gets to be a truly small amount in the context of the ML budget) to finish the job.

Let's just not rebrand again any time soon.

- Paul

 

[T3G]

That video drive-by of Willowbrook is an interesting bit of data. I counted 43 coaches in the new paint, 12 in the old. Obviously my count is a small and possibly unrepresentative sample but it does hint that the bulk of the fleet is now in the new paint. I don't favour waste either, but at some point I'd declare victory and not begrudge the small amount (when it gets to be a truly small amount in the context of the ML budget) to finish the job.

Let's just not rebrand again any time soon.

- Paul

According to a quick count I did of the CPTDB wiki, they have 402 coaches still listed in the old colours. I don't know if this is a fully accurate number as it does include some of the Series VII coaches (2522-2544, 2600-2661 and 242-250) which are currently undergoing repainting, but it does suggest that the number is far less trivial than one would think. I'm not aware of anything from the Series III, IV, V*, or VII orders having been taking in for repainting yet except for 2808 which was done around 8 years ago.

It might be only a small amount in the context of the ML budget, but ML is astonishingly poor at making use of their money. How many new MCI coaches can $18 million buy? I know what would deliver more value for the average GO rider.

* The switch to the new livery happened about midway through the refurbishing of the Series V cars, so some of them have only a 10 year old paint scheme.

 

[drum118]

I have seen two sets that were all in the new colour scheme with the old colour power on it. Have seen set with 2-5 old colours on them. Have never like the new scheme but will never see a bitter one in my life time.

 

[RU479]

In Metrolinx’s Asset Management procurements, they have a provision for the repainting of the Series III, IV, and VIII cars.

 

[APTA-2048]

In Metrolinx’s Asset Management procurements, they have a provision for the repainting of the Series III, IV, and VIII cars.View attachment 717169

A lot of those are getting pretty faded and worn. I don't really have a problem with repainting them. Through Metrolinx also just awarded a contract last year to refurbish them. Don't know how far out that will be.

 

[cplchanb]

its ironic that ML are desperate to shore up their image with line 5 and 6, yet ignore easy low hanging fruit such as putting together trains to show 1 unified livery and a consistent brand image instead of a what currently there. its like a disorganized bunch of random freight cars.
in fact wouldnt it be easier then if they sent 1 entire assembled train to the paintshop all at once instead of having to pick and choose from rainbows?

 

[WB62]

I don't think you understand how equipment is cycled and maintained.

You’re constantly complaining about how Metrolinx wastes money, yet you’d like to see more fuel, employees, and hours (all $$$$) go towards rearranging trains in a unrealistic way that’s unnecessary and doesn’t impact the customer’s experience in a meaningful way.

By the end of the decade the trains should be in a consistent livery, either from the repaint contract mentioned above, or the remaining railcar refurbishments being completed.

 

[cplchanb]

L
By the end of the decade the trains should be in a consistent livery, either from the repaint contract mentioned above, or the remaining railcar refurbishments being completed.

Considering that the livery was introduced in the early 2010s, 15 years to bring trains up to shape is an incredulously low bar to set. If theyre going to take that long just to repaint.... just imagine how long its actually going to take for go 2.0. We'll all be dead before the full plan is realised, if it hasn't alrwsy been further diluted