[thenorth]

I reckon only with the downtown streetcars that have their own ROW. I feel the city will maintain the status quo for streetcars in mixed traffic.

I understand why you feel that way, but I’m optimistic that you’re wrong. Especially after the success of RapidTO on Bathurst and Dufferin.

It’s my opinion that all the streetcar routes should get the RapidTO treatment with effective signal priority. It would be awesome if we could get the streetcars up to 18 km/h on average, which would be about 50% faster than they are now, if my memory serves me correctly.

 

[NY99]

I don't think so. I think that argument is something created by your gutless Mayor and company to make it look like they are taking a "balanced" approach.

Just because people drive in the suburbs doesn't mean that they don't appreciate that transit is vital to the workings of the city. They appreciate, as much as your average transit user, that it is only fair that a vehicle carrying 20 or 30 people has priority over a vehicle carrying one or two. I've never heard such people get mad at the addition of HOV lanes because they personally won't use them and ditto for bus-lanes. I've never heard anyone complain that they have to stop for GO or VIA train at a crossing. They may be ticked that they have to wait for a train to go by but nobody thinks that they shouldn't have priority.

Added to this, car drivers are also taxpayers. They don't like to see billions of their hard earned tax dollars go to waste all because City Hall can't figure out TSP. Remember this line is on Finch and the vast majority of people using the road are Torontonians themselves. Chances are these much maligned drivers were once transit users too, especially for those who went to post-secondary. They know what it's like to crawl on a bus.

Just because someone drives does not mean they are unreasonable, that job has been taken by your politicians.

Anyone who has ever used the foolish term “car-brained” on this forum should ponder this message. And maybe wait until they reach the age of majority before they resume posting.

 

[thenorth]

Wow. If we're really talking about going from 55 minutes at launch to 30 with signal priority that feels like a major win. Certainly well beyond what I thought was reasonable to hope for.

It would be game changing. And really makes me think we should prioritize an extension to the Airport.

30 mins runtime from Finch West to Humber College means 40 to 45 mins runtime to Pearson Airport. So someone could get from VMC to the Airport in just about an hour. Absolutely game changing.

 

[NY99]

I understand why you feel that way, but I’m optimistic that you’re wrong. Especially after the success of RapidTO on Bathurst and Dufferin.

It’s my opinion that all the streetcar routes should get the RapidTO treatment with effective signal priority. It would be awesome if we could get the streetcars up to 18 km/h on average, which would be about 50% faster than they are now, if my memory serves me correctly.

Rapidto where feasible…

But even where it’s not, there’s a TON of good that can be done:

1) switch upgrades at intersections
2) stop rationalization
3) Better TSP*
4) strategic limitations on left turns/through movements
5) Quicker door openings and closings**
6) proper level boarding for ROW/island stops
7) permission to just friggin gun it

* what about this: a way for streetcars to extend a yellow light long enough to clear a backlog of left-turning cars in front of them, allowing them to move forward before the end of the phase? Idk I’m the furthest thing from an expert here, but I’d love to hear thoughts on this idea.
** I feel like this is an underrated issue. The doors are soooooooooooooooooo slooooowwwwww. Not only that, late-arriving passengers have an endless ability to re-open them.


Thank you Finch West for sh*tting the bed so bad we’re now taking travel times seriously!

 

[thenorth]

Rapidto where feasible…

But even where it’s not, there’s a TON of good that can be done:

1) switch upgrades at intersections
2) stop rationalization
3) Better TSP*
4) strategic limitations on left turns/through movements
5) Quicker door openings and closings**
6) proper level boarding for ROW/island stops
7) permission to just friggin gun it

* what about this: a way for a streetcar to trigger a yellow light long enough to clear a backlog of left turning cars in front, allowing the streetcar to move forward before the end of the phase? Idk I’m the furthest thing from an expert here, but I’d love to hear thoughts on this idea.
** I feel like this is an underrated issue. The doors are soooooooooooooooooo slooooowwwwww. Not only due to the speed itself, but the endless ability to re-open the doors

The doors on Line 5 open a lot faster than on the streetcars. No idea why. TTC should align their door operation procedures with Line 5.

 

[T3G]

I don't think so. I think that argument is something created by your gutless Mayor and company to make it look like they are taking a "balanced" approach.

Just because people drive in the suburbs doesn't mean that they don't appreciate that transit is vital to the workings of the city. They appreciate, as much as your average transit user, that it is only fair that a vehicle carrying 20 or 30 people has priority over a vehicle carrying one or two. I've never heard such people get mad at the addition of HOV lanes because they personally won't use them and ditto for bus-lanes. I've never heard anyone complain that they have to stop for GO or VIA train at a crossing. They may be ticked that they have to wait for a train to go by but nobody thinks that they shouldn't have priority.

Added to this, car drivers are also taxpayers. They don't like to see billions of their hard earned tax dollars go to waste all because City Hall can't figure out TSP. Remember this line is on Finch and the vast majority of people using the road are Torontonians themselves. Chances are these much maligned drivers were once transit users too, especially for those who went to post-secondary. They know what it's like to crawl on a bus.

Just because someone drives does not mean they are unreasonable, that job has been taken by your politicians.

I appreciate your belief in your fellow man, but where do you think those politicians come from? They come from the communities they represent and in many cases embody the attitudes of those communities, they didn't drop out of the sky from another planet. And it doesn't take a lot of searching to find people who drive in the suburbs that are against transit being given any kind of special privileges. I used to get into arguments with people I know about this subject all the time, that it was unfair to penalize drivers for not choosing transit. One of them, who, ironically, claimed to be a transit fan was against transit only lanes, because it was tantamount to communism to give one group special privileges. And if you read under the FB comments on any random article about transit, they're not exactly rare. Hell, despite what the revisionists on this site try to tell you, the only reason Rob Ford so aggressively promoted a subways only agenda is because he hated surface transit and didn't want it to get in his way as a motorist. Guess what kind of transit doesn't get in a motorist's way?

Anyone who has ever used the foolish term “car-brained” on this forum should ponder this message. And maybe wait until they reach the age of majority before they resume posting.

This post summed up: anyone who promotes an idea you disagree with is a child. That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, so thanks for playing, maybe next time you can refute the argument.

 

[NY99]

It would be game changing. And really makes me think we should prioritize an extension to the Airport.

30 mins runtime from Finch West to Humber College means 40 to 45 mins runtime to Pearson Airport. So someone could get from VMC to the Airport in just about an hour. Absolutely game changing.

I think the biggest game changer would the section from Humber College to Woodbine GO.

We need to seriously prioritize building this extension. Now. If nothing else, because of how cheap it is: an elevated guideway along a straight-shot path through low-density industrial, with perhaps 1 new station at Rexdale. Only complication being the approach at Woodbine GO itself.

Currently, to get from Union to Humber College, a student must take Line 1 all the way up to Finch and transfer to Line 6. Thats a very slow journey — a fact for which Line 1 shoulders much of the blame.

With the Line 6 extension, the same student could instead take the UP to the new Woodbine station and transfer to the extension. A blazing-fast 2-stop journey later, and you’re at Humber.

The time savings would genuinely be life-changing for a lot of people.

 

[ownthesky]

It would be game changing. And really makes me think we should prioritize an extension to the Airport.

30 mins runtime from Finch West to Humber College means 40 to 45 mins runtime to Pearson Airport. So someone could get from VMC to the Airport in just about an hour. Absolutely game changing.

To add, something like 1 in 6 workers in the GTA work in the Pearson Economic Zone. People often think airport = passengers, but the reality is the airport is surrounded by employers that are not well served by rapid transit. I do wager nothing will be done until Pearson's transit hub is finalized.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

The doors on Line 5 open a lot faster than on the streetcars. No idea why. TTC should align their door operation procedures with Line 5.

It looks like it's a different mechanism for opening them between the two models.

 

[T3G]

The doors on Line 5 open a lot faster than on the streetcars. No idea why. TTC should align their door operation procedures with Line 5.

The door movements on the streetcars were the same as on the L5 cars until shortly before COVID, when the door movement was slowed down, in both directions.

 

[anb]

I think the biggest game changer would the section from Humber College to Woodbine GO.

We need to seriously prioritize building this extension. Now. If nothing else, because of how cheap it is: an elevated guideway along a straight-shot path through low-density industrial, with perhaps 1 new station at Rexdale. Only complication being the approach at Woodbine GO itself.

Currently, to get from Union to Humber College, a student must take Line 1 all the way up to Finch and transfer to Line 6. Thats a very slow journey — a fact for which Line 1 shoulders much of the blame.

With the Line 6 extension, the same student could instead take the UP to the new Woodbine station and transfer to the extension. A blazing-fast 2-stop journey later, and you’re at Humber.

The time savings would genuinely be life-changing for a lot of people.

A student would actually find more benefit in taking Line 1 and Line 2 from Union to Kipling and then the 927 Express bus to Humber, as you could get there in about 60-65 mins as opposed to the near 90 min+ journey taking Line 1 and Line 6.

Even with TSP fully implemented on Finch, it would probably either go down to being a similar time as the Kipling option, or still slightly slower. It takes 35-40 mins just to get from Union to Finch West alone so if Finch ever gets to 30-35 mins, it still wouldn't be the fastest option.

But I agree with this new Woodbine GO extension, it could completely revolutionize the way Humber College and this overall area of Rexdale is seen. Just about a 30 min GO/UP ride and then a 5 min LRT ride to Humber. People who live on Kipling or Islington can even benefit from this with just taking Line 6 to Woodbine and either heading to Union or Bramalea afterwards to connect them to basically the entire GTA, opening even more opportunities.

 

[Undead]

To add, something like 1 in 6 workers in the GTA work in the Pearson Economic Zone. People often think airport = passengers, but the reality is the airport is surrounded by employers that are not well served by rapid transit. I do wager nothing will be done until Pearson's transit hub is finalized.

Not that we shouldn't try to serve that employment area, but the last mile problem there is especially acute.

 

[thenorth]

I think the biggest game changer would the section from Humber College to Woodbine GO.

We need to seriously prioritize building this extension. Now. If nothing else, because of how cheap it is: an elevated guideway along a straight-shot path through low-density industrial, with perhaps 1 new station at Rexdale. Only complication being the approach at Woodbine GO itself.

Currently, to get from Union to Humber College, a student must take Line 1 all the way up to Finch and transfer to Line 6. Thats a very slow journey — a fact for which Line 1 shoulders much of the blame.

With the Line 6 extension, the same student could instead take the UP to the new Woodbine station and transfer to the extension. A blazing-fast 2-stop journey later, and you’re at Humber.

The time savings would genuinely be life-changing for a lot of people.

A student would actually find more benefit in taking Line 1 and Line 2 from Union to Kipling and then the 927 Express bus to Humber, as you could get there in about 60-65 mins as opposed to the near 90 min+ journey taking Line 1 and Line 6.

Even with TSP fully implemented on Finch, it would probably either go down to being a similar time as the Kipling option, or still slightly slower. It takes 35-40 mins just to get from Union to Finch West alone so if Finch ever gets to 30-35 mins, it still wouldn't be the fastest option.

But I agree with this new Woodbine GO extension, it could completely revolutionize the way Humber College and this overall area of Rexdale is seen. Just about a 30 min GO/UP ride and then a 5 min LRT ride to Humber. People who live on Kipling or Islington can even benefit from this with just taking Line 6 to Woodbine and either heading to Union or Bramalea afterwards to connect them to basically the entire GTA, opening even more opportunities.

Not that we shouldn't try to serve that employment area, but the last mile problem there is especially acute.

Metrolinx needs to release a comprehensive Etobicoke + Pearson rapid transit master plan. Something that ties together Line 6, Line 5, Line 2, Woodbine GO Station, Renforth Station and perhaps the Lakeshore West Line. We have a lot of transit infrastructure terminating in that area. We now need to tie it all together, while improving north-south travel in Etobicoke and improving access to the Pearson employment lands.

Now is a good time to start planning this, since planning for the Pearson Transit Hub and construction on the Line 5 West extension should presumably be done soon.

 

[doublemint]

Reportedly, TSP is only in place at the intersections of Pearldale, Duncanwoods, and and Milady avenue, for now.

But besides, Doesn't none of this talk about TSP matter unless the TTC "unpad" their schedules without increasing headways? If the schedules stay padded, wouldn't the trains be running at top speed less frequently, or dwell for longer at stations, so as to not get ahead of schedule?

In order for TSP's speed improvements to be material, the TTC would need to reduce headways and unpad the schedule (difficult to say if they will, given that they were so concerned about long-term maintenance costs increasing with faster, reduced-headway service). Also, don't the TTC only have like 2-4 backup trams? Seems like operations are already spread quite thin.

 

[smallspy]

It looks like it's a different mechanism for opening them between the two models.

It's not.

Dan