[trtcttc]

"Boogeyman billionaire"? Have you read any of the Epstein files? Setting aside that insanity and the surveillance state being built by Thiel, Musk, Bezos and Zuckerberg etc., you want to tell us that you believe that a small fraction of illegal immigrants is costing more money than the billionaires hoarding most of the world's wealth and paying zero taxes?

Forget the tech bros, let's look at a "local" example. Murray Edwards pays zero municipal personal taxes as his primary residence is in London. He has meddled in municipal politics to get a taxpayer funded new arena for the past decade. After signing an agreement where CSEC would have actually paid 50%, he pulled the rug out from under the new mayor at the time and had his pal Danielle Smith give over $300 million in taxpayer dollars in addition to Calgarians' share increasing. He offshores his wealth and CNRL has one of the most opaque environmental track records of any of the oil companies.

Another Alberta example is Sam Mraiche. UCP donor attached to the corruptcare scandal who has had no less than 5 (6 maybe?) family members in government positions with the UCP that has had literally hundreds of millions of dollars given to his companies as part of sole sourced contracts, real estate purchases, private surgery clinics, Turkish Tylenol procurement etc. This is the definition of donor class corporate government corruption. And their strategy to cover this up is to point at immigrants and distract us by blaming them for taxpayer money being wasted.

You are being played like a fiddle my friend.

You are equating things that I never said. You can mangle together all the world's problems and say look at everything else so we shouldn't deal with this problem. But is there an argument against the specific asylum problem?

I don't like Edwards as an owner for mostly hockey reasons, but what are you proposing? We could've not paid for any of the arena and said to the Flames, you can stay and build your own or go, and call their bluff. It is a little telling that all councilors and mayors from across the political spectrum voted for the deal. You can be mad that he owns the team and have leverage, but what's your solution?

Again, an issue doesn't cease to exist if there are other issues. I don't disagree that we should look into the UCP issues, especially the AHS dismissal suit which is making it's way through the courts. But just because those exist, doesn't mean we shouldn't deal with anything else.

 

[lemongrab]

And I’d like to demand free food, free groceries, everything free! And the boogeyman billionaire will pay for all of it!

Maybe we shouldn’t be helping a foreigner see the whiteboard before we help a tax paying resident. It’s magical how the world became so unstable that refugee applications shot up at the exact same time we tightened student an TFW visa rules, hmmm..

Nothing is free. But many things make sense to manage collectively. In many cases the direct costs may not seem like a bargain, and often it isn't. But the indirect benefits and avoidance of negative outcomes may make up for that. Or maybe they don't. Personally I'd rather err on the side of more social spending, because even where it is inefficient or wasteful that spending still ends up recirculated in the economy. I think paying higher taxes hurts me less than it helps others.

I don't see the argument being made that asylum seekers should have Better healthcare than we afford our own citizens.

There are low-income optical care programs throughout the country. Same with dental. It means hoops to jump through, just like the refugees have to. Like many things, I'm sure it's frustrating for Canadians who are just over the low-income threshold. So we should keep trying to do better.

 

[darwink]

Refugees get one year of income support and are expected to support themselves as soon as possible. It is pretty hard to find work if you need glasses and can’t afford glasses. Similarly a baseline of dental work after potentially years without living in a functional state.

One way to split the difference: if you’re applying from within Canada and have reported T4 earnings before, there is likely no need for any of the initial arrival aid. Seems a far more reasonable line to draw.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

Refugees also get that all covered by the feds, doesn't cost the province anything.

Division of responsibilities isn't always easy to understand but in this case the province knows better.

 

[trtcttc]

Nothing is free. But many things make sense to manage collectively. In many cases the direct costs may not seem like a bargain, and often it isn't. But the indirect benefits and avoidance of negative outcomes may make up for that. Or maybe they don't. Personally I'd rather err on the side of more social spending, because even where it is inefficient or wasteful that spending still ends up recirculated in the economy. I think paying higher taxes hurts me less than it helps others.


There are low-income optical care programs throughout the country. Same with dental. It means hoops to jump through, just like the refugees have to. Like many things, I'm sure it's frustrating for Canadians who are just over the low-income threshold. So we should keep trying to do better.

We just have a different belief in what society should provide. I think society should provide a safety net for the most urgent situations, domestic or refugees, but you have a much more expansive view of that, which is fine.

Refugees get one year of income support and are expected to support themselves as soon as possible. It is pretty hard to find work if you need glasses and can’t afford glasses. Similarly a baseline of dental work after potentially years without living in a functional state.

One way to split the difference: if you’re applying from within Canada and have reported T4 earnings before, there is likely no need for any of the initial arrival aid. Seems a far more reasonable line to draw.

I can support that. Refugees in need we can provide temporary supports, but the program is being overwhelmed with illegitimate claims. If you were able to come here as an international student, you shouldn't be allowed to claim refugee status. There were 20,000+ refugee claims from international students alone. If you are suspected of committing a crime, you shouldn't be allowed to claim refugee status.

Foreign student asylum claims hit record high in 2024, set to grow in 2025 - National | Globalnews.ca

The claims are rising, even as Ottawa cuts the number of study permits it issues, with Prime Minister Mark Carney pledging to return Canadian immigration to 'sustainable levels.'

globalnews.ca

Extortion suspects claiming refugee status ‘ludicrous,’ B.C. premier says | Globalnews.ca

Speaking on Tuesday, David Eby said the issue came to a head when two people were arrested in Surrey in connection with extortion and then claimed refugee status.

globalnews.ca

 

[trtcttc]

Refugees also get that all covered by the feds, doesn't cost the province anything.

Division of responsibilities isn't always easy to understand but in this case the province knows better.

It's time limited. And once a person is approved (federal in sole control of asylum adjudication), it is now provincial responsibility. So the Feds admit people, provide them care, approve the claims/time passed, provinces foot the bill. Provinces are expected to pay for these people with zero say in their admittance. This is the same problem Olivia Chow complains about in Toronto. Quebec is the only province with significant control over their immigration targets. We are not really asking for anything Quebec doesn't already have, such as an AB approved immigration status that's what their CSQ is.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

It's time limited. And once a person is approved (federal in sole control of asylum adjudication), it is now provincial responsibility. So the Feds admit people, provide them care, approve the claims/time passed, provinces foot the bill. Provinces are expected to pay for these people with zero say in their admittance. This is the same problem Olivia Chow complains about in Toronto. Quebec is the only province with significant control over their immigration targets. We are not really asking for anything Quebec doesn't already have, such as an AB approved immigration status that's what their CSQ is.

View attachment 717402

That's how the federation works. I DO NOT want to be Quebec. People here seem to want the benefits Quebec has but think we can avoid the negatives.

You can reply but I'm kind of tired of this discussion so won't reply anymore.

 

[darwink]

but the program is being overwhelmed with illegitimate claims

Until they're adjudicated, how can we know they're illegitimate?

 

[darwink]

Quebec is the only province with significant control over their immigration targets. We are not really asking for anything Quebec doesn't already have, such as an AB approved immigration status that's what their CSQ is.

The problem in Alberta is Alberta is complaining about a program Alberta had 100% control over, international students, complaining that the feds didn't stop Alberta from wrecking themselves, despite Alberta complaining when the feds ultimately stepped in.

 

[DougB]

If a provincial election were held today, the United Conservative Party would receive 49% of the vote among committed voters, compared with 36% for the Alberta NDP. The Alberta Liberal Party registers 9%, with smaller shares for other parties.

The UCP’s lead is driven heavily by performance outside the two major cities. In Edmonton, the NDP leads 44% to 38%. In Calgary, the race is closer, with the UCP at 46% and the NDP at 38%

Alberta Poll: UCP Hold Clear Lead as Healthcare and Independence Emerge as Government’s Key Vulnerability - Abacus Data

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abacusdata.ca

 

[O-tac]

The 20% provincial property tax increase for Calgarians is going to fly like a lead balloon. Where is it you live again?

 

[MichaelS]

Would the NDP cut education funding to not raise taxes?

 

[O-tac]

That’s a bullshit excuse considering the billions the government chose to blow on all manner of partisan Danielle Smith thought experiments, corrupt contracts, Alberta Next panels, payouts to coal companies, Alberta is calling immigration campaigns, ‘studies’ that no one wanted for everything from leaving CPP to Preston Manning’s cushy $200k anti vaxx ramblings about the pandemic. This government under Smith raked in $82 billion in oil royalties over 4 years vs $16 billion for the NDP. And they are running a massive deficit. Where did all that money go?

 

[Surrealplaces]

In Calgary, the race is closer, with the UCP at 46% and the NDP at 38%

At the end of the day, the Calgary numbers are all that matters, but even those numbers are too general. We need to see where that the support is in relation to each riding. If the UCP has massive support in a few ridings, but the NDP is slightly leading in the rest of the ridings, then it's a different outcome.
We'll also get a better idea of Calgary when we get closer to the election and the campaigning starts. The UCP is already in power and won't gain anything from campaign ads, etc.. whereas the NDP has the better opportunity to dredge up things the UCP is doing or has done.
It's going to be interesting as we get closer.

 

[Dkeirle]

If a provincial election were held today, the United Conservative Party would receive 49% of the vote among committed voters, compared with 36% for the Alberta NDP. The Alberta Liberal Party registers 9%, with smaller shares for other parties.

The UCP’s lead is driven heavily by performance outside the two major cities. In Edmonton, the NDP leads 44% to 38%. In Calgary, the race is closer, with the UCP at 46% and the NDP at 38%

Alberta Poll: UCP Hold Clear Lead as Healthcare and Independence Emerge as Government’s Key Vulnerability - Abacus Data

%

abacusdata.ca

I wouldn't put much stock in those numbers. I'm not 100% confident the NDP will win, but it'll be closer than those numbers show. As Surrealplaces mentioned, it really comes down to Calgary and the distribution of support over various ridings.