[kEiThZ]

Without the US refuelers, they can't reach Iran anyway

That's not accurate. They have their own. And they can buddy tank to get over. It's not efficient and dramatically reduces payload. But they can and have done it.

That said, i wholeheartedly agree that it's really hard to see how prolonging this benefits the US.

 

[Full Metal Junkie]

it's really hard to see how prolonging this benefits the US

It's also hard to see how accepting Iran's terms of ceasefire benefits the US (and the rest of the world) either. Last night Trump touted Iran's 10-point peace plan as an excellent starting point for the negotiations. Just a reminder of what's in the plan:

1. Fundamental commitment to non-aggression from the US.
2. Controlled passage through the Strait of Hormuz in coordination with the Iranian armed forces, which would mean that Iran retains its leverage over the waterway.
3. An acceptance of Iran’s nuclear enrichment programme.
4. The lifting of all primary and secondary sanctions and resolutions against Iran.
5. End of all resolutions against Iran at the International Atomic Energy Agency.
6. End of all resolutions against Iran by the United Nations Security Council.
7. The withdrawal of US combat forces from all bases in the region.
8. Full compensation for damages suffered by Iran during the war – to be secured through payments to Iran by ships passing through the Strait of Hormuz.
9. The release of all Iranian assets and properties frozen abroad.
10. The ratification of all these matters in a binding UNSC resolution.

So, basically, the stuff of IRGC's wet dreams: they get to develop nukes, US pays them reparations, they get to charge $64B per year in tolls for shipping through the Straight of Hormuz, all economic sanctions are lifted from them, they get to keep their regional proxies, US gets to GTFO from the region.

When pressed if the US agrees for Iran to set up the tolls for shipping through the straight, this morning Trump insinuated that yes, this is what is happening and called it (and I quote) "a beautiful thing"

Hegseth is going around doing "victory" speeches. Referring to Operation Epic Fury exclusively in the past tense. Making it sound like everything is done and dusted.

Quite a victory, eh?

 

[Towered]

It's also hard to see how accepting Iran's terms of ceasefire benefits the US (and the rest of the world) either. Last night Trump touted Iran's 10-point peace plan as an excellent starting point for the negotiations. Just a reminder of what's in the plan:

1. Fundamental commitment to non-aggression from the US.
2. Controlled passage through the Strait of Hormuz in coordination with the Iranian armed forces, which would mean that Iran retains its leverage over the waterway.
3. An acceptance of Iran’s nuclear enrichment programme.
4. The lifting of all primary and secondary sanctions and resolutions against Iran.
5. End of all resolutions against Iran at the International Atomic Energy Agency.
6. End of all resolutions against Iran by the United Nations Security Council.
7. The withdrawal of US combat forces from all bases in the region.
8. Full compensation for damages suffered by Iran during the war – to be secured through payments to Iran by ships passing through the Strait of Hormuz.
9. The release of all Iranian assets and properties frozen abroad.
10. The ratification of all these matters in a binding UNSC resolution.

So, basically, the stuff of IRGC's wet dreams: they get to develop nukes, US pays them reparations, they get to charge $64B per year in tolls for shipping through the Straight of Hormuz, all economic sanctions are lifted from them, they get to keep their regional proxies, US gets to GTFO from the region.

When pressed if the US agrees for Iran to set up the tolls for shipping through the straight, this morning Trump insinuated that yes, this is what is happening and called it (and I quote) "a beautiful thing"

Hegseth is going around doing "victory" speeches. Referring to Operation Epic Fury exclusively in the past tense. Making it sound like everything is done and dusted.

Quite a victory, eh?

Not one of those points is acceptable.

 

[Full Metal Junkie]

Not one of those points is acceptable.

I don't know what would be more damaging to Trump's approval ratings: the fact that he started this war without any good plan for winning it, or the fact that he will have ended it on the enemy's terms (if this is how it ends up playing out).

 

[Full Metal Junkie]

That's not accurate. They have their own. And they can buddy tank to get over. It's not efficient and dramatically reduces payload. But they can and have done it.

Huh, indeed, they do have 7 antiquated aerial tankers of their own:

Israel's Fighter Force Stands To Be Far More Effective With Full USAF Tanker Support In A War With Iran

The Israeli Air Force could be the real beneficiary of American tankers now forward-deployed in the country.

www.twz.com

Live and learn. Based on the above article, even with those Israeli tankers being employed, it still would limit their strike force payload capacity, by the sounds of it.

But sufficed to say, without USAF refuelers, Israel cannot maintain nearly the same optempo.

 

[T3G]

 

[afransen]

A reminder for anyone cheering on the Islamic Republic: using human shields is a war crime. Arguably an even more egregious war crime than bombing civilian infrastructure. A time honored tradition to use their people as human shields by the folks that can only be described as "the good guys", right?

It could be argued that the US is using civilians as human shields by putting up their service members supporting combat operations in civilian hotels rather than on bases.

 

[Full Metal Junkie]

It could be argued that the US is using civilians as human shields by putting up their service members supporting combat operations in civilian hotels rather than on bases.

That's a stretch

 

[Mihairokov]

It could be argued that the US is using civilians as human shields by putting up their service members supporting combat operations in civilian hotels rather than on bases.

It's the same thing Israel claimed Palestine was doing, eg putting military targets under hospitals or schools. Only the US was actually putting their own people in civilian hotels.