[Frankietls]

I'm much more irritated with the delays here (this was originally supposed to be completed by 2023..........)

The city mentioned the OL construction at Queen as the main reason for the delay of construction start in 2030 which i think is too convenient. Is there any temporary options that could be considered ? bollards, planters, street furnitures, loading zones.... ? pedestrian desparately need more space especially from Gerrard to Dundas. The sidewalks here on Yonge are super cramped even in the dead of winter, and curb lanes are practically undrivable already.

 

[Northern Light]

The city mentioned the OL construction at Queen as the main reason for the delay of construction start in 2030 which i think is too convenient. Is there any temporary options that could be considered ? bollards, planters, street furnitures, loading zones.... ? pedestrian desparately need more space especially from Gerrard to Dundas. The sidewalks here on Yonge are super cramped even in the dead of winter, and curb lanes are practically undrivable already.

Anything south of Dundas is subject to Mx approval (Ontario Line zone of control)

North of Dundas, I'm unware of any regulatory barriers to 'temporary' or 'interim' measures.

But there are some practical limits, The construction at Yonge/Elm already has the curb lane.

The scaffolding structure at Yonge/Gerrard is also a conflict.

A low hanging fruit move would be to use planters and heavy, but decorative guard rail and close the curb lane from Dundas to Gould NB, and Edward to Dundas SB.

More than that is certainly feasible, but more complex.

The cost of 30 modular bollards, plus 30 high quality commercial planters would probably set you back 30k installed. Flowers are extra.......5k, per year for annuals, but includes weed and water.

 

[Natika33]

It's too bad the bollards are not still there at Union. We could strictly admonish the engineering students in the city to NOT move them to Yonge as part of their grad year prank.

 

[Mihairokov]

Not sure how this is connected to the Premier. There is nothing in provincial legislation preventing the pedestrianization of Yonge St - just not permitting bike lanes (which the City seems to think they can still do anyway!).

Think if we ever live in a future where Yonge is actually pedestrianized the bike lane infrastructure should be focused on a nearby N/S throughfare, whether that's Bay or Jarvis or even University. One of the overlying issues with Yonge pedestrianization is that delivery drivers will still need access to Yonge businesses on their bikes and mopeds regardless of what the bike infrastructure looks like. There are solutions to this, like having anti-bike or anti-moped bollards in pedestrian-only areas, but that's going to be a lot to ask for in a place where we can barely get standard bollards at high-traffic intersections.

 

[txlseries4]

Think if we ever live in a future where Yonge is actually pedestrianized the bike lane infrastructure should be focused on a nearby N/S throughfare, whether that's Bay or Jarvis or even University. One of the overlying issues with Yonge pedestrianization is that delivery drivers will still need access to Yonge businesses on their bikes and mopeds regardless of what the bike infrastructure looks like. There are solutions to this, like having anti-bike or anti-moped bollards in pedestrian-only areas, but that's going to be a lot to ask for in a place where we can barely get standard bollards at high-traffic intersections.

I think we should ask whether working hard and increasing costs to keep pedestrians and cyclists separated is a worthy goal, specifically for areas we're making pedestrian priority. They’re both groups of vulnerable road users who aren’t threats to each other like motor vehicles are, despite some fearful perceptions otherwise that isn't supported by any injury or collision data. I suspect insisting on them each using separate infrastructure reinforces the sentiment that bicycles are dangerous and both groups can’t exist together.

While there isn't a bicycle counter on Yonge south of Bloor, traffic studies done by the city give us an idea of how many cyclists vs pedestrians there are, and I've throw in cars too. This is all "movements" and not just N-S

Wednesday April 8 2025 7C cloudy with some sun
|Location                              |Cars  |Cyclists|Pedestrians|
|--------------------------------------|------|--------|-----------|
|Yonge St / Gerrard St E / Gerrard St W|19,005|519     |22,976     |
|Yonge St / Elm St                     |9,174 |1,828   |20,914     |
|Yonge St / Gould St                   |8,668 |895     |35,906     |
|Yonge St / Edward St                  |8,997 |1,470   |24,284     |
|Dundas St E / Yonge St / Dundas St W  |18,839|2,243   |75,973     |
|Yonge St / Dundas Sq                  |8,558 |1,608   |16,547     |
|Yonge St: Shuter St - Dundas Sq       |8,410 |1,083   |15,497     |
|Yonge St / Shuter St                  |11,695|1,312   |17,036     |

Sunday April 12 2025 7C partly sunny
|Location                              |Cars  |Cyclists|Pedestrians|
|--------------------------------------|------|--------|-----------|
|Yonge St / Gerrard St E / Gerrard St W|17,149|3,548   |38,721     |
|Dundas St E / Yonge St / Dundas St W  |15,618|3,454   |91,808     |
|Yonge St / Dundas Sq                  |7,325 |1,857   |29,320     |
|Yonge St: Shuter St - Dundas Sq       |7,062 |1,690   |29,592     |
|Yonge St / Shuter St                  |10,176|1,791   |27,468     |

On compatibility of the two groups in the same space there's an interesting study that was done in Montreal in 2021 looking at “Cyclist-Pedestrian Cohabitation” on 3 pedestrian streets, a pilot at the time that has since been expanded.

Abstract:

Among Montreal pedestrian streets summer projects in 2021, two locations (Mont-Royal Avenue and Wellington Street) have set up a pilot project considering the cohabitation between pedestrians and cyclists by authorizing cyclists to stay on their bike at a slow pace while it’s forbidden on other pedestrian streets. This paper aims to document this cohabitation at three specific sites (two where cyclists are permitted and one where they are not) based on observations of cyclist's behaviours and their interactions with pedestrians. Direct observations of cyclists (n=1371) were conducted through a grid regrouping items about cyclist characteristics, actions and interactions with a pedestrian. The results show that cyclists' behaviours are fairly predictable and one third of them were involved in an interaction with a pedestrian. For the small number of cyclists who engaged in unsafe behaviours, young males and other vehicle types (i.e., Segways, rollerblades, cargo bikes, etc ) are overrepresented.

Handful of excerpts:

Of the 1,371 cyclists observed, only 85 (6%) were judged by our observers to be riding dangerously.

From Discussion

"According to the results, cyclists' behaviours did not jeopardize the safety of pedestrians. In fact, the average number of actions per cyclist was low, and the most frequent action was riding straight ahead—a behaviour that makes it easier to anticipate a reaction, which is necessary for cohabitation."

From Conclusion

The City of Montréal has set up a pilot project allowing cyclists to ride on two pedestrian streets during the summer of 2021. The objective of this research was to document the behaviour of cyclists and their interactions with pedestrians based on observations at two sites that allow pedestrians and cyclists to share the space and one site that does not. Considering our observations, the behaviour of cyclists is respectful of pedestrian priority, is not considered dangerous, is fairly predictable and the cohabitation between users remains safe for pedestrians.

Link:
Cyclist-Pedestrian Cohabitation : Lessons to learn from a pilot project on pedestrians streets in Montréal (Canada)

 

[Mihairokov]

Thanks for this. I've looked through the report and believe this only covers cyclists (eg pedal bikes) - my main concern is with delivery drivers and other users on electric or motorized two-wheeled vehicles as well as e-scooters. If i'm mistaken please let me know. I consider them, at least anecdotally, more dangerous to pedestrians than standard cyclists, typically because they're in a rush to go from point a to point b. I believe this report predates the proliferation of e-scooter drivers who seem unable or unwilling to use bells, lights, or other items that cyclists are encouraged to use for pedestrian, and their own, safety.

 

[txlseries4]

Thanks for this. I've looked through the report and believe this only covers cyclists (eg pedal bikes) - my main concern is with delivery drivers and other users on electric or motorized two-wheeled vehicles as well as e-scooters. If i'm mistaken please let me know. I consider them, at least anecdotally, more dangerous to pedestrians than standard cyclists, typically because they're in a rush to go from point a to point b. I believe this report predates the proliferation of e-scooter drivers who seem unable or unwilling to use bells, lights, or other items that cyclists are encouraged to use for pedestrian, and their own, safety.

They mostly observed push bikes but they did capture e-bikes and "other", and describe behaviour below. But I agree that conclusions can't simply be drawn from it, whether because of the proliferation like you said, or that behaviour in Montreal could be different than in Toronto.

Regarding the type of bicycle or wheeled device, the proportion of cyclist having a dangerous behaviour was similar for bicycles (5%), electric bicycles (6%) and mobility aids (5%). Other types of bicycles/vehicles—such as cargo bikes, Segways, hoverboards, and electric scooters—have a 24% share of the total number. Lastly, Table 5 shows that the presence of dangerous riding is significantly related to the number of interactions—either no
interactions, one interaction, or two or more interactions (p < 0,01). Cyclists who were riding dangerously and had no interactions represented 33% while those who had either 1 interaction or 2 or more interactions represented 56% and 11%. Other Otherwise only 4 minor collisions (0,2%) were reported by the observers and no external data on collisions (e.g., from police report) were available at the time of our analysis.

Re: considering them more dangerous, there has been an increase in pedestrian-cyclist collisions, but the number per year is so small (see below) I don't know how meaningful the increase or takeaway is. There's a gap in data about fault so some could be a pedestrian walking into the right of way of a cyclist, examples of which are in the outdated pedestrian ksi data. Despite the increase the number continues to be dwarfed by pedestrians hit by cars, and there are many instances of multiple people hit by a driver, yet incidents are counted without including how many were involved. It also doesn't separate out push bike vs e-bike vs scooter. To me the scale of (e)bike proliferation we've seen and its increase in feelings of danger aren't reflected by a similar proportion of pedestrian collisions. There are other gaps in the data like incidents that were never reported and near misses.

I know data doesn't change minds but I think it's still important present it and challenge how we feel with a dose of something closer to empirical.
If I'm mathing correct in 2025 nearly 4 (3.7) people were hit by a car every day, which is 1 person hit every 6.5 hours, compared to a pedestrian-cyclist collision every 22.8 days.

I know some have been hit by cyclists or heard stories of that happening and are left feeling unsafe or even injured and that sucks. We all deserve to be and feel safe.

Data taken from here: https://data.tps.ca/datasets/TorontoPS::traffic-collisions-open-data-asr-t-tbl-001/about

 

[jozl]

I’m very discouraged about the timeline of this project. It’s been twenty years since it was posted in UT. According to the official website published by “Yonge Toronto” the design still hasn’t been finalized. ##**!!… I was under the impression that construction was about to start this year- now that the water mains south of College Street have been replaced, at least that’s what I assumed the three years of construction was about. Council has approved everything and the money has been allocated but they are still dealing with design?? Very disappointing. Beginning construction in 2030? Unbelievable. Am I the only one venting?

 

[TwoWheelPoli]

I’m very discouraged about the timeline of this project. It’s been twenty years since it was posted in UT. According to the official website published by “Yonge Toronto” the design still hasn’t been finalized. ##**!!… I was under the impression that construction was about to start this year- now that the water mains south of College Street have been replaced, at least that’s what I assumed the three years of construction was about. Council has approved everything and the money has been allocated but they are still dealing with design?? Very disappointing. Beginning construction in 2030? Unbelievable. Am I the only one venting?

It's not just you. It's an epic disappointment including the scrapping of pedestrian priority zones. The latest delay is likely triggered by the Ontario Line work near Queen.

 

[afransen]

Is it just about not wanting to deal with the political fallout of removing lanes on Yonge?

 

[dougtoronto]

I've waited for this project for over a decade but tbh I'd rather they keep delaying it until a certain greedy man can't get his greasy fingers all over it.

 

[ComptoirGeneral]

Can we take inspiration from Seoul's Insadong street? I visited this place last year and it made me think this is what Yonge would look like if it were pedestrianized.
The street is essentially all-pedestrian at certain times during the day, and has more pedestrian traffic than Yonge, but still allows essential traffic like supply and garbage trucks to go through.
Idk if buses are allowed go through this, but given that Yonge is wider, I'm thinking we can add a dedicated lane in case a shuttle is needed.

View attachment 726869
View attachment 726870

Oh how nice this would be. Imagine not actively avoiding walking down Yonge

 

[Northern Light]

It's not just you. It's an epic disappointment including the scrapping of pedestrian priority zones. The latest delay is likely triggered by the Ontario Line work near Queen.

Partially the case

Also, Transportation doesn't have the budget or staff to deliver everything on their project list.

This, of course, could be prioritized, but you can see all sorts of meritorious projects that have been delayed by years, both for budget (And other reasons.

From John Street, to the Legion Road underpass, to the NYCC ring road.

I'm not going to give staff a free pass here, there have been some questionable choices made over time. But when Mx is charging you 150m for a 2km bike path..... budget is fleeting.

 

[Northern Light]

Is it just about not wanting to deal with the political fallout of removing lanes on Yonge?

Not an issue. Here no one is really arguing for the status quo.

 

[lightarchitect]

I was just in Copenhagen and wanted to learn more about their pedestrian only street Strøget.
Strøget was first closed to cars on 17 November 1962 as a trial pedestrian zone.

• The idea was experimental at first because many people (especially shop owners) were skeptical.
• After the trial proved successful, the city made it permanently car-free in 1964.

So in short:

• 1962 → temporary closure begins
• 1964 → permanently pedestrianized

How do service vehicles get through today?
Even though it’s “pedestrian-only,” it’s not completely sealed off. Like most European pedestrian zones, access is controlled rather than totally banned:

• Delivery vehicles are typically allowed during restricted hours (usually early morning before crowds build up).
• Emergency services (ambulances, police, fire) can enter at any time.
• Maintenance and municipal vehicles (cleaning, waste collection, repairs) also have access when needed.

This kind of time-restricted access is standard practice in pedestrian streets and is part of how Copenhagen balances a car-free environment with practical logistics.

Why it worked so well:
The shift reduced congestion, noise, and pollution while actually increasing foot traffic and business activity, which is why Strøget became a global model for pedestrian streets.

Not sure why Toronto makes it so difficult. If the Ontario line is delaying this project they should at least do a trail period like Copenhagen from Dundas to Carlton.

No cars.

Crossroad

With delivery vehicles