Why cant Torontonians vote on the future of the airport, instead of having half dozen extreme left wing politicians down at Cityhall listing to the half dozen nimbys that are trying to pressure a closure of the CityCentre Airport.


Hmm, perhaps a referendum on the island airport at the next municipal election? Wonder what the vote result would be...

Mind you Torontonians opinions essentially don't matter in this situation because the Island airport is run by a federal agency. I can't see any way that the city can pass a by law that would make the airport illegal (zoning?) which would supersede the federal policy.
 
Hmm, perhaps a referendum on the island airport at the next municipal election? Wonder what the vote result would be...

Mind you Torontonians opinions essentially don't matter in this situation because the Island airport is run by a federal agency. I can't see any way that the city can pass a by law that would make the airport illegal (zoning?) which would supersede the federal policy.

I would love a referendum on this. I am very confident that most of the 416 would support the continuation of operations at the island airport. And that would shut the critics up finally...

The only reason Miller et al. would never agree to a referendum is that they know what the result would be...
 
There was an election where one of the biggest topics was the island airport. Miller and Vaughan were elected and were openly against the airport. Vaughan the councillor for the area containing the airport and Miller the mayor for the area containing the airport both won the election. The bridge is off the table, Porter was paid compensation, and the Airport Authority accepted a legal settlement of $35 million that says they can't consider building a bridge anymore.

There isn't any real talk of closing the airport right now. It will not be an election issue. Why talk about it? It isn't closing, the city has no power to close it, the city isn't talking about closing it. If the airport ever closes it will be because Porter no longer flies there. The only way Porter will no longer fly there is if it determines it is too growth contrained there and moves to Pearson or Pickering, if it can't handle the competition of high-speed rail taking people to either the larger airports with more flight options or to Montreal and Ottawa and closes shop, or if Porter gets bought out. Having a referendum at this point would be pointless... like a referendum on whether to locate Mississauga City Centre at Cooksville or the 403.
 
And that would shut the critics up finally....

Critics don't shut up just because of a vote. Did Bush winning an election shut of Bush critics? Would an Obama or McCain win shut up Obama or McCain critics? Critics of the airport believe that the airport is unnecessary and not a good fit with residential, office, and park zoning. It is not a co-incidence that at locations around the world airports are surrounded by lower cost land and industrial use. The fact that land values on the waterfront are not severely impacted by the airport says more about the effectiveness of jet aircraft and expansion restrictions and the draw of downtown than it says about the desirability of an airport in an urban environment.
 
I remember the election that brought David Miller to power, and the island airport bridge was THE issue. Toronto was against it. But I think Porter's success has changed a lot of minds. I think we should treat the island airport as an asset. It's not like we'll ever have jumbo jets flying out of YTZ.
 
I remember the election that brought David Miller to power, and the island airport bridge was THE issue. Toronto was against it. But I think Porter's success has changed a lot of minds. I think we should treat the island airport as an asset. It's not like we'll ever have jumbo jets flying out of YTZ.

I agree with the second half of your comment. Period.

As to the first half, I had always heard rumours that miller did poorly in the more suburban areas in that election. If that's true, then the island airport was one of those strange wedge issues that mobilized downtown to overpower the suburbs who had different ideas on what direction the city should go in.
 
There was an election where one of the biggest topics was the island airport. Miller and Vaughan were elected and were openly against the airport.

The public just wanted someone different from Lastman. I bet if we had political parties at the municipal level, Miller's NDP platform would have fallen flat on its face.

As to Vaughan's election....NIMBY reaction from that riding....

The bridge is off the table, Porter was paid compensation, and the Airport Authority accepted a legal settlement of $35 million that says they can't consider building a bridge anymore.

If the airport is not such an issue, why not allow the bridge? Let the airport authority pay for it. From an environmental perspective, its a lot better than running that ferry.....

There isn't any real talk of closing the airport right now. It will not be an election issue. Why talk about it?

Because it'll likely become an issue again next election...seems to pop up randomly when certain politicians don't want to talk about the many other issues we have in this city....

It isn't closing, the city has no power to close it, the city isn't talking about closing it.

Thank goodness, the feds had the sense not to hand over the airport. Otherwise, it would be closed. That's why we are talking about it, because there are still many people who can't wait for Porter and the airport to fail.

If the airport ever closes it will be because Porter no longer flies there.

And then hopefully, some other upstart will come along. As long as traffic can be generated the airport should be open, Porter or no Porter.

Having a referendum at this point would be pointless... like a referendum on whether to locate Mississauga City Centre at Cooksville or the 403...

Critics don't shut up just because of a vote.

But they might stop claiming that most of the public is behind them and the mayor will certainly understand that getting elected on a whole platform does not automatically mean that your single issue is accepted or priority 1 for the public.

Critics of the airport believe that the airport is unnecessary and not a good fit with residential, office, and park zoning.

Fair enough. But they should be equally honest in saying that they want that air traffic relocated to impact other residents in the city.

It is not a co-incidence that at locations around the world airports are surrounded by lower cost land and industrial use.

Yet, this is not the case for YTZ. Indeed the airport is not holding back the waterfront condo boom.

The fact that land values on the waterfront are not severely impacted by the airport says more about the effectiveness of jet aircraft and expansion restrictions and the draw of downtown than it says about the desirability of an airport in an urban environment.

You are providing weak justification here for what you know is contradictory evidence. YTZ has had no impact on waterfront property values. It has not impacted any of the recreational or tourist activities downtown. And it is increasingly proving to be a better option than Pearson. The island airport is convenient and environmentally friendly and the majority of its operations aren't over residents anyway (they are over water), a polar opposite of Pearson. If as you believe that all this says more about the effectiveness of turboprops and the expansion restrictions than I trust that you should be able to agree that the rules are effective and that the airport deserves to stay as long as it follows the rules. WRT the desirability of the airport....find me a neighbourhood that wants to take on an airport. If you want access to air travel it has to be convenient and it will impact someone. The downtown is not special in this regard. As long as downtowners want to fly they should bare some burden of the noise and pollution that comes from having an airport nearby.
 
As to the first half, I had always heard rumours that miller did poorly in the more suburban areas in that election. If that's true, then the island airport was one of those strange wedge issues that mobilized downtown to overpower the suburbs who had different ideas on what direction the city should go in.

I don't have specific numbers for this, but I believe voter turn out for the Mayoral election was quite low. I think under 40%, not sure though. It could just be that suburban regions, or really any region outside of the Harborfront, didn't really care. It was hardly an existential issue to begin with (and John Tory hardly Churchill-esque).

The perceived "suburbanization" of city council probably has more to do with councilors being elected regardless of voter turnout. For instance, Rob Ford's district will always send a councilor. But in a general election, if one group isn't motivated, it would be pretty easy to "overpower."
 
the new terminal will be done by the next election... So Porter and the airport aren't going anywhere.
 
I hated the bridge primarily because they picked the ugliest, bulkiest thing to build.

The traffic and parking at the foot of Bathurst can get quite congested at times. I'm not sure a bridge will help with all of that.
 
Chicago was officially announced today. Nov 12th with 3 round trip flights delay, and eventually this will be double when another plane arrives. So 6 RTs on weekdays in to Midway.
 
You know, if Lisa Raitt (now Tory candidate) had been smart enough to propose a really great design for that bridge, instead of the overpass that we saw, a lot of people would have had a much harder time opposing it.

Here's an interesting aside: if Raitt wins her seat, she may well be named Toronto minister. What a bizarre world.
 
I hated the bridge primarily because they picked the ugliest, bulkiest thing to build.

Very true. That probably did not help their case any. An overpass, does not scream waterfront....and probably was not Porter's style anyway. There is something cool about taking a ferry to get there....just makes Pearson seem like an air travel factory.

The traffic and parking at the foot of Bathurst can get quite congested at times. I'm not sure a bridge will help with all of that.

Wouldn't that have been improved if the traffic was now shifted to the island instead of the mainland?

Here's an interesting aside: if Raitt wins her seat, she may well be named Toronto minister. What a bizarre world.

Who knows, it maybe better than having the sage of Oshawa as the federal adviser on all things Toronto....
 
There was once a very striking proposal for a bridge to the Island airport by none other than Santiago Calatrava. It was a cable-stayed swing bridge, if I recall.
 

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