[sjc]

Unless Westjet is willing to cede whole chunks of eastern Canada to Porter, it's unlikely they could co-operate. What could Porter offer Westjet in return?

While Porter has almost certainly siphoned off some of Westjet's Eastern traffic, the primary casualty is Air Canada/Air Canada Jazz. Westjet doesn't really have that many flights in the east.

Toronto-Ottawa, for example is only 5 flights a day (and have been as few as 3) and not really at the most convenient times. For business travel, they aren't really convenient a lot of the time. I think they are intended primarily for giving Ottawa passengers access to the flights out west from YYZ.

For someone from Halifax, Westjet is still going to be more convenient for someone going to Winnipeg or Calgary, which will fill up their YYZ flights.

While Porter is stealing some of the O&D traffic to and from Toronto, those passengers (certainly the premium ones that all airlines want) were more tied to Air Canada and Aeroplan/MLLs.

Competing with Westjet and Air Canada on the Calgary-Edmonton-Vancouver triangle would be a different story and might be a lot more difficult.

 

[kEiThZ]

Competing with Westjet and Air Canada on the Calgary-Edmonton-Vancouver triangle would be a different story and might be a lot more difficult.

Agreed. The only way Porter can compete there is on price and service. And that ball game involves dancing on a knife's edge....it's a fight for some razor thin margins.

 

[sjc]

Even here in the East, Air Canada is considering bringing back it's Rapidair service to compete with Porter. Co-operation is not always the solution for a business. Sometime they have to battle their competitor.

It is important to identify who the competitors are. Air Canada would love for Porter and Westjet to beat each other up.

If Air Canada and Porter are going (continue) to go head to head, it might be in Westjet's best interest to stay out of it for now. Offer minimal service in the eastern triangle to get connecting passengers but don't bother lowballing triangle prices or matching schedules. Let Porter and Air Canada play the discounting game (although Porter seems somewhat resistant to going too low on price).

 

[sjc]

Agreed. The only way Porter can compete there is on price and service. And that ball game involves dancing on a knife's edge....it's a fight for some razor thin margins.

If they changed the rules to let Porter into Edmonton City Airport, then the situation would be different. That doesn't look too likely now, but governments can change along with public opinion.

EDIT: It looks like the Edmonton airport is taking the city to court to keep both their runways open.

There's a softer argument that the airport authority, as per the provincial Regional Airport Authority Act, is not fulfilling its mandate to promote "an expanded aviation industry for the general benefit of the public."

There's the ticklish question of whether the City Centre Airport is a "private" or "public" airport. If deemed by a judge to be a "public" airport, the airport authority cannot deny a legitimate user without reason. And the meaning of "reason" becomes the source of much debate.

Edmonton City Airport ( map ) is TCCA-like in its convenience. You have to zoom the map out pretty far to see the international airport.

 

[TOareaFan]

^ But there's nothing stopping Westjet from buying a few Q400s and setting up a similar service right now.

Nothing except the total abandonment of their core business model which is to be a discount carrier using one type of plane. The efficiencies they generate by having only one type of plane in their fleet are quite substantial. From maintaining the fleet (parts inventory, training mechanics), to staffing them (in flight staff only have to be trained on one type of plane) to scheduling (every pilot can fly every plane).

They may feel that partnering with someone else is better for them than abandoning what they are.

 

[sjc]

Nothing except the total abandonment of their core business model which is to be a discount carrier using one type of plane.

Does Westjet have regional feeder deals with anyone? Or are all the minor airlines in Canada feeders to Air Canada or completely independent?

I would expect that if Westjet got some smaller planes and broke their business model, they would use them with destinations other than Toronto -- such as smaller centres that could feed their western network.

 

[sjc]

I wonder if this means that Porter isn't an "upstart" anymore?

British upstart lifts content from Porter Airlines

But as the saying goes, imitation is the highest form of flattery, and Victor Bassey has taken the cake in his admiration for Porter. The Nigerian businessman has plans to launch his own British short-haul carrier, Excelsis Airways.... the Northern Echo newspaper has unearthed some rather unsettling facts about Excelsis, like it has yet to secure operator’s license and that its new website is an almost word-for-word copy of Porter’s own website.

In particular, the section entitled the "excelsis experience" is lifted verbatim from the "Porter Experience."

Mr. Bassey admitted to the Northern Echo that some of the website has been lifted from Porter and called the situation "embarrassing." He also said the situation would likely need some "smoothing over" with Porter.

Porter, for its part, is aware of the situation, and while it has nothing to do with Excelsis, it has no plans to take action at this point, said Brad Cicero, Porter spokesman.

Once others try to copy you, that suggests that you are a real airline. The "upstart" torch has been passed.

 

[kEiThZ]

Nothing except the total abandonment of their core business model which is to be a discount carrier using one type of plane. The efficiencies they generate by having only one type of plane in their fleet are quite substantial. From maintaining the fleet (parts inventory, training mechanics), to staffing them (in flight staff only have to be trained on one type of plane) to scheduling (every pilot can fly every plane).

They may feel that partnering with someone else is better for them than abandoning what they are.

I don't discount their business model. But if they are looking to ward off a potential threat from Porter in the West or offer similar services, I would suggest that they don't need to partner with Porter. They could setup a separate airline (a la AC Jazz) or simply start operating a second aircraft type. Adding a second type would not be as burdensome as it sounds. It's still not like they are Air Canada which has Boeing widebodies, Airbus narrowbodies and Embraer regionals in its fleet while Jazz has Bombardier regionals and turboprops in its fleet. Setting up a unit that runs only one aircraft type (the Q400) would not be that hard for Westjet. Indeed, that would actually be less diverse than the three different models of the 737NG they run today.

 

[kEiThZ]

I wonder if this means that Porter isn't an "upstart" anymore?

British upstart lifts content from Porter Airlines

Once others try to copy you, that suggests that you are a real airline. The "upstart" torch has been passed.

No doubt immitation is the highest form of flattery. What always surprises me though is why no airline has started out using LCY as its main operating base. Even in this case, you have an airline starting up to serve Newcastle with service to LCY. A number of airlines have LCY as a hub but they only operate to a handful of destinations from there. Given that the Q400 could cover all of the UK and half of Europe from LCY, I would think that this would be the perfect place from which to run a Porter type of airline.

 

[sjc]

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of domestic, non-water-crossing flights at LCY. Perhaps their trains service is so excellent that people don't need to fly short distances? Or their fees and charges are too high to make it worthwhile?

EDIT: Or maybe it is more an issue of who wants to go to Newcastle when you could go to Paris or Amsterdam just as easily and quickly?

 

[kEiThZ]

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of domestic, non-water-crossing flights at LCY. Perhaps their trains service is so excellent that people don't need to fly short distances? Or their fees and charges are too high to make it worthwhile?

EDIT: Or maybe it is more an issue of who wants to go to Newcastle when you could go to Paris or Amsterdam just as easily and quickly?

British rail services aren't as good as the mainland. I suspect it's the latter reason you've put forward. Nevertheless, one would think a Porter type service would really do well operating from LCY regardless of whether the destination was domestic or continental.

 

[jwill]

London City and Toronto Island don't quite compare for a couple of reasons.

1. YTZ is downtown, while LCY is not. LCY is closer than Heathrow, but not as close as the island. Canary Wharf is much closer to LCY, but the west end is closer to heathrow

2. Heathrow has a very fast (about 15 mins) rail link to west london. Its expensive, but that isnt really an issue for business travellers. LCY's only link is the docklands light rail, which is about a 20-30 min ride (If I remember correctly) to the city.

 

[nfitz]

Heathrow has a very fast (about 15 mins) rail link to west london. Its expensive, but that isnt really an issue for business travellers. LCY's only link is the docklands light rail, which is about a 20-30 min ride (If I remember correctly) to the city.

Does it really matter how fast it is from Heathrow to west end of London? Business district is in the east end (the City) and Canary Wharf. Do you see lots of towers around Paddington station?

London City Airport to Bank is 23-25 minutes non-stop (10 stations) on the DLR. London City Airport to Canary Wharf is about 15 minutes, including a change to the tube (only 3 stations on the DLR, 2 on the tube).

Heathrow Central to Paddington is 17 minutes, but Heathrow 4 to Paddington is 23 minutes, and Heathrow 5 to Paddington is at least 28 minutes, if you change at Heathrow Central (33 minutes on a direct train).

Heathrow (Central) to Bank is over 45 minutes, and to Canary Wharf is almost 55 minutes (though Crossrail will help that).

Clearly business travellers are going to choose London City Airport, if all else is equal.

 

[sjc]

Clearly business travellers are going to choose London City Airport, if all else is equal.

Certainly British Airways appears to think so, having recently introduced business-class-only LCY-JFK service.

 

[sjc]

It looks like Westjet isn't giving up on the Eastern Triangle (or at least two of the three legs):

Westjet Promotes 20-trip packages

Calgary's WestJet Airlines said Wednesday it will sell packages of "20 one-way flights for $2,000 between Toronto and Montreal, and Toronto and Ottawa," an average of $100 per flight.

From the Westjet Website:

Buy now and receive 20 one-way flights between Toronto - Ottawa or Toronto - Montréal* for just $2000. That's a flat rate of $100 per flight, any day of the week, any time of the day. Your Ottawa - Toronto - Montreal pass will be valid for travel up to 12 months after the time of purchase.

Buy your Eastern Travel Pass now and you'll also receive: * 5 complimentary one-time passes to the Plaza Premium Lounge in Toronto.

*GST or HST/QST extra. Pass valid for 20 one-way trips between Toronto - Ottawa, Toronto - Montréal, or combination of the two only. Passes will be valid for travel up to 12 months after the time of purchase. No refunds on WestJet Travel Pass. Unlimited changes or cancellations up to one hour prior to travel. Passes are transferable, but are void if resold. Offer is not combinable with other fares, discounts or offers. New bookings only. Pass purchases must be completed by October 1, 2009.

$100 + GST is a pretty good deal, especially with unlimited changes or cancellations and access to the lounge in Toronto, although as I noted above, Westjet doesn't have the schedule to make unlimited changes as big a deal as it would be for Porter or Air Canada. The cheapest Porter passes are around the same price, but come with too many restrictions to be useful for anything other than leisure travel (but do come with lounge access in Toronto).

EDIT: This is a LOT better deal than you get from Air Canada. AC will sell you a non-transferable Tango-Plus Rapidair pass ($50-$75 fees for changes and cancellations, no lounge access) for $2400 for 10 flights. For transferable and no changes fees, the small business latitude pass will run you $9900 for 30 flights. The Rapidair pass does give you Ottawa-Montreal flights though, which the Westjet one doesn't. The Porter Flexible pass is $2290 for 10 flights, which is cheaper than Air Canada, is transferable and only a $25 change fee (up to an hour before the flight).