Go Elevated or try for Underground?

  • Work with the province and go with the Elevated option

    Votes: 8 72.7%

  • Try another approach and go for Underground option

    Votes: 2 18.2%

  • Cancel it altogether

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • Total voters
    11
Gazyyc said:
Exactly how would an elevated line, invigorate 10th? Removal of parking, shadowing,noise, vibrations (all the things left out of the AECOM report). Call me a negative nancy however I don't see how these benefits will invigorate the street.
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I am not sure if you’re being facetious or not but I’ll bite.

It will drive more people to the area. More businesses can support the increased people arriving by transit, it makes it more walkable.

There are high rises all around, there are ALREADY shadows. You live in a city, and it’s the downtown core where density is already naturally concentrated with high buildings.

The noise is less than cars. The roads there are very noisy as existing, and new technology for transit is far quieter than cars.

Vibrations? Not really an issue, it’s not 100 years ago like Chicago.

There’s so many upsides, and the only downside is it’s too affect traffic by taking away lanes for cars(a good thing as it makes it better for pedestrians with wider sidewalks. It’s much better for business.
 
darwink said:
The UCP usually accompanied that pronouncement with ‘and connecting with the red and blue lines’.

I think in the case of the AECOM report the province was legitimately surprised that elevated to around city hall was such a bad idea when their friends had said it was a good idea for years. Plus the incremental cost for some guideway and an extra elevated station isn’t very high but the system is so much better. It lays if there was a temptation to end at 4th, how much doing so undermines ridership and travel time savings.

I am confident that the city and province will reconcile. That the city’s position on evaluation will end up far more conciliatory, after they realize 90% of the $1.3 billion in extra costs they asserted exist don’t really.
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You’ll know better than I will on the likelihood of the city and province reconciling and I hope you’re right. I’d hate to see this project fall by the wayside due to politics and stubbornness.
If you were to speculate on the outcome, is AECOM’s elevated option down 10th and 2nd street the likely option?
 
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CalgaryTiger said:
It actually creates opportunity: Eau Claire can be developed without relying on leaving room for the Green Line.
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An elevated station built into a new Eau Claire development could work. I’d prefer that option to an underground option where it comes out of the ground at Eau Claire and barely clearing the river pathway.
 
darwink said:
The UCP usually accompanied that pronouncement with ‘and connecting with the red and blue lines’.

I think in the case of the AECOM report the province was legitimately surprised that elevated to around city hall was such a bad idea when their friends had said it was a good idea for years. Plus the incremental cost for some guideway and an extra elevated station isn’t very high but the system is so much better. It lays if there was a temptation to end at 4th, how much doing so undermines ridership and travel time savings.

I am confident that the city and province will reconcile. That the city’s position on evaluation will end up far more conciliatory, after they realize 90% of the $1.3 billion in extra costs they asserted exist don’t really.
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Hope so. I see Calgary politicians rallying against the province as Smith is a demagogue. It’s easy political posturing, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it costs us the Green Line.
 
jhappy77 said:
The SkyTrain is elevated in Metrotown, Brentwood, New Westminster, Surrey, Richmond, etc... doesn't kill development or property values there. Is it the perfect solution? No. But we need good transit more than we need perfection.
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The way to ensure that transit will never get built in Calgary is to over engineer it to perfection.

Build what you can, not what you dream of.
 
jhappy77 said:
The SkyTrain is elevated in Metrotown, Brentwood, New Westminster, Surrey, Richmond, etc... doesn't kill development or property values there. Is it the perfect solution? No. But we need good transit more than we need perfection.
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That part. Calgary LRT has been as successful as it's been because they made a choice in the 80s to build transit out faster by making the choices that gets the train out to the quadrants. As good a downtown tunnel would be, the system wouldn't be as built out as it is today if they didn't audible from building that out. This Green Line is in a similar spot. Do they want a low floor line that goes underground downtown, or do they want a line that goes far enough SE that it's in range to serve the intended customers of that line? While we're alive?
 
From my simplistic point but view it seems like we have mainly two choices. Work with the province for an elevated solution or hope for an NDP government and take another run at an underground option.
My own preference, all things equal is an u/g solution, but from a realistic all things considered perspective I’m leaning to the elevated option. Mainly because I don't dislike an elevated solution. If I thought it sucked, like an at grade solution, I’d roll the dice and wait for the UCP to get the boot.
 
Dārayavauš said:
The way to ensure that transit will never get built in Calgary is to over engineer it to perfection.

Build what you can, not what you dream of.
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My thoughts too. Perfection would have been burying the red and blue line downtown, but the path we chose was successful nonetheless. We move 280,000 people a day on the current system, and the end goal is really about moving people.
The elevated solution isn’t perfect, but it has its not bad either.
 
Bottom line is there's no point in litigating right and wrong - yes the Province were jackasses for yanking funding at the last moment (at least in lot of people's opinions), but no there's not a lot we can do about it. So the 2 levels of government need to stop scrapping and start working towards solutions so we don't piss this opportunity away and end up a couple billion poorer in the process.
 
Surrealplaces said:
My thoughts too. Perfection would have been burying the red and blue line downtown, but the path we chose was successful nonetheless. We move 280,000 people a day on the current system, and the end goal is really about moving people.
The elevated solution isn’t perfect, but it has its not bad either.
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My thoughts as well. I'd love underground too, but the current costs are getting really had to justify.

The renders don't look too bad, if built I think the elevated guideway will disappear into the collective subconscious quick enough, especially if the guideway as artwork idea gets some traction.

One thing is for sure, if the full NC/SE line is going to cost 20bil+, the damn thing better be automated! It's just way too much to spend and not get a high frequency capable system ...
 
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