[Silence&Motion]

Has anyone raised the possibility of a referendum on a tax increase to pay for the green line? It’s an extremely popular project (something like 85% favourability evenly spread across all wards). I know raising taxes would make it less popular, but still potentially a majority support. It drives me crazy that even in a recession this city still has the (second?) highest median income in Canada, pays the some of the lowest taxes, has general low cost of living, and our city government is still so poor.

Also, to hell with Rempel. She’s an opposition MP in Ottawa. She’s entitled to no more say than any of the other 1.3 million Calgarians. Jim Gray as well.

 

[O-tac]

Has anyone raised the possibility of a referendum on a tax increase to pay for the green line? It’s an extremely popular project (something like 85% favourability evenly spread across all wards). I know raising taxes would make it less popular, but still potentially a majority support. It drives me crazy that even in a recession this city still has the (second?) highest median income in Canada, pays the some of the lowest taxes, has general low

Taxes are viewed roughly the same as the plague in Calgary.

Also, to hell with Rempel. She’s an opposition MP in Ottawa. She’s entitled to no more say than any of the other 1.3 million Calgarians. Jim Gray as well.

I fully agree!

 

[O-tac]

Those are not the problem, they are symptoms (or reactions) to the real problem, which is the continuing increase in the cost of the Green Line. This was the Green Line (late 2015) that was sold to politicians and the public:

It was great; if the City could just find that money, it could eliminate overcrowded buses in the NC, improve transit service to the deep SE and for $5B, it wouldn't even greatly affect downtown thanks to a substantial tunnel from north of 16th Ave N to 10 Ave SW. And the politicians did find the money, but then the Green Line exploded in costs. If the City could have stay close to budget, or at least able to build Beddington-Shepard with the tunnel for $5B, there would be far fewer calls for rethinks and pauses.


But that's the thing, it's no longer fully funded. So that's why you have these varied people having raising issues, because these compromises now being forced by the increased costs of the Green Line were never discussed in the past.

Your argument misses one key point. Those billions of dollars in Federal and Provincial funding might not be available later. Take the money and run. The cost of construction will only increase with time.

 

[UrbanRED]

Your argument misses one key point. Those billions of dollars in Federal and Provincial funding might not be available later. Take the money and run. The cost of construction will only increase with time.

Especially now since labour is cheaper due to the recession

 

[MichaelS]

Especially now since labour is cheaper due to the recession

This seems to imply that construction is currently cheaper than it previously had been, which is a direct contradiction to the statement O-tac makes in your quote. Not picking on you with this, just pointing out that "construction costs will only increase" is not a 100% certainty.

 

[O-tac]

This seems to imply that construction is currently cheaper than it previously had been, which is a direct contradiction to the statement O-tac makes in your quote. Not picking on you with this, just pointing out that "construction costs will only increase" is not a 100% certainty.

How does his statement contradict mine? Cheaper labour rates are one of the things I was referring to with costs increasing over time.

 

[UrbanRED]

This seems to imply that construction is currently cheaper than it previously had been, which is a direct contradiction to the statement O-tac makes in your quote. Not picking on you with this, just pointing out that "construction costs will only increase" is not a 100% certainty.

How does his statement contradict mine? Cheaper labour rates are one of the things I was referring to with costs increasing over time.

It doesn't contradict. O-tac's statement was saying that things are low right now, so they can be expected to increase over time. Not that construction costs have increased every year ever.

 

[MichaelS]

Well, I guess I see his statement as a prediction that this is as low as it is going to get, and there is absolutely no way it will ever be lower than this. I am not sure that is accurate, and saying so should be qualified as such.

Perhaps waiting to rethink things will not only result in a better alignment or first phase, but perhaps cheaper costs as well.

 

[MichaelS]

The Notice of Motion approved by Council today:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/lrt-green-line-vote-construction-tender-contracts-ctrain-calgary-1.5228604

https://twitter.com/CBCScott

Also apparently they will re-look at the 9th Avenue NE station in Crescent Heights.

 

[O-tac]

'We must get project credibility back': Green Line project won't be paused

'We must get project credibility back': Green Line project won't be paused

The Green Line project won’t be paused, but city staff say they will review the downtown alignment and bring in independent experts to review plans before construct…

calgaryherald.com

The door is still open to pause it by 2020 if it isn't sorted out but it will have to be an epic screw up for that to happen. All in all this seems the most level headed response.

 

[googspecial]

When are we to expect an update on this? Anyone know?

 

[MichaelS]

There was a bit of an update at Transportation and Transit committee last week, the agenda (with video of the meeting) can be found here:

SPC on Transportation and Transit - September 18, 2019

pub-calgary.escribemeetings.com

Item 7.1 was the Q3 Greenline update, 7.2 was the appointment of the independent technical review committee.

 

[ByeByeBaby]

An interesting CBC article where a reporter walks the southeast Green Line alignment and finds... not a lot, really.

The key takeaways boil down to this.

• Like any city, Calgary has some ugly 'back of house' scenery.
• Besides helping Calgarians get around, a new train line will let people to see a different side of their town.
• Construction of this portion of the Green Line will affect some homeless people and wildlife

 

[ByeByeBaby]

Well, Kenney's cancelled the Green Line; 8 of the 10 ridings it passed through elected UCP MLAs.

The city was supposed to receive $555 million for the planned LRT over the next four years. Nenshi, seemingly incredulous, told reporters it will now receive $75 million.

$75 million is useless in building a piece of infrastructure, it's like someone offering you twenty bucks to help buy a house. And this is for the entire term of the UCP government, after which they presumably hope to be reelected, and then not fund the Green Line again.

I assume the feds will take their matching money back, too. (Remind me, Kenney's been critical of Ottawa sending too much money to Alberta, right?)

 

[DougB]

This is good news. The project is so off the rails that funding it now would be foolish. Best to wait for a new City council. The federal money is likely gone regardless.