[InfrastructureEnthusiast]

At this point, I would raise the budget and extend it to Seton. Make it a proper line that will actually serve a lot of people

No need to raise the budget, just replace the trains with autonomous electric buses!
That should free up more than enough money for the Seton extension, and to fully grade separate the line.

Might even free up enough money to pay for a similar dedicated bus route in the north to bridge blue line to north pointe via yyc, and kickstart the commuter rail system...

When those articles were posted summing up the history of the green line fiasco, it wasn't clear to me when or why it was decided that the SE *needed* to be LRT instead of the bus based setway?

Was it someone's campaign promise? Or was it just a side effect of the project scope growing to include the NC leg?

 

[Red Star]

Supposedly the new alignment, Elevated above 10th ave from "Grand Central Station", ending at 7th ave SW.
https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/c...-line-plan-the-ball-is-in-city-councils-court
View attachment 619184

I'm pretty disappointed with the alignment AECOM brought forth.

These are my thoughts on the proposed alignment:

1. There are six +15s on 2nd street which need to be demolished/reworked.
2. The transfer at 7th ave isn't great as the nearest westbound station on 7th ave is two blocks away.
3. The new station at 10th Ave. is kind of useless and adds travel time
4. The tracks have to go above this monstrosity on 9th Ave. & 2nd:

I propose this instead:

1. Utilize the existing CPR ROW
2. Begin track elevation west of 4th street.
3. The demolition/reworking of only two +15s is required
4. The tight corner of 9th and Center street has space at the NE corner to accommodate the turn.
5. Instead of building a new costly bridge over the Bow River, the alignment can utilize Center Street bridge...since it is a low floor train after all.

The drawback of using Center Street is that is misses a lot of the CBD. This means a longer walk for commuters.

 

[kora]

'The reason it's important to connect Seventh Avenue is that it allows for transfers to both the Red and Blue Line. Going on to Eau Claire would cost another $400 million. And so that means that if you do that, then you can't take the project all the way out to Shepard,' said Smith.

'So those are the trade-offs that have to be made.'"

Wonder how much it would cost to build a pedestrian tunnel from the 7 Avenue Green Line station to exit somewhere around 4 Avenue, so that pedestrians can skip the busy and unpleasant 6th, 5th, and 4th Avenues.

But when I think about it, that work better with an underground 7 Avenue station.

Technically the Plus 15 system is supposed to serve that purpose, but it's circuitous (not direct) and not open at all times.

 

[lemongrab]

It can stay elevate the entire stretch. This entirely leaves options open. Even better, it might socialize the idea of elevated, meaning we get elevated until north of 16th Ave N, a superior outcome.

Great point. I haven't thought too much about north of the Bow - my bias is wanting to avoid unnecessary (and expensive) impacts through PIP/river, but just shooting through elevated the whole time would probably be the best way to mitigate it with this alignment.

Of course we'd also lose out on the miraculous benefits of LF trains where they magically make every street a pedestrian paradise...speaking of which it would be a bit funny if we end up with 0 meters of track where LF is actually necessary (though maybe it would still drop down between 20th-64th)

Damn is there ever a lot of +15s on second street! 6 between 9th and 2nd Aves. I'd like to see it go to ground and then up Centre but there is nowhere to turn east.

This AECOM report better outline the options they looked at because I don't see how 1st Street SW wasn't the better option? There's the same parking lot you're using to turn north on 2nd that you could use to turn north on 1st.

The whole point of LF was the ability to turn on a dime, so 3rd or 2nd Aves should have been feasible (3rd ave was originally an option in late 2015).

 

[darwink]

"Alberta Premier Danielle Smith said in a news conference Friday morning that extending the elevated LRT line by 640 metres to an Eau Claire station would cost an additional $400 million.

That probably includes the expropriation cost of removing development opportunity, which is way way less if you come to a mutual agreement that maximizes benefits to the developer. It's a weird thing where the government deciding to do something, costs way way more, than the government working to do the same thing.

 

[accord1999]

Really how much more to get to Seton? The right away is there (at least till Stoney Tr) and it’s quite a pretty simple build. Except for a bridge over Stoney, not much structure needs built?

Even in 2019, it was estimated at upwards of $1B.

When those articles were posted summing up the history of the green line fiasco, it wasn't clear to me when or why it was decided that the SE *needed* to be LRT instead of the bus based setway?

Was it someone's campaign promise? Or was it just a side effect of the project scope growing to include the NC leg?

Basically the side effect of the joining the SE to the NC. Since the NC portion was supposed to need LRT soon as bus capacity would not be adequate for Centre Street N, the whole project skipped BRT. But then chose to prioritize the SE at every opportunity.

 

[trtcttc]

so what about Eau Claire area, the market has been empty, such a great location. those land just left as it is now?

For now. I think that's actually better in the short run with so much uncertainty around this project. Maybe it never gets to Eau Claire and something else comes of that land. Once this is built in... 10 years? a lot of things could change with the city.

 

[lemongrab]

I'm pretty disappointed with the alignment AECOM brought forth.

These are my thoughts on the proposed alignment:

1. There are six +15s on 2nd street which need to be demolished/reworked.
2. The transfer at 7th ave isn't great as the nearest westbound station on 7th ave is two blocks away.
3. The new station at 10th Ave. is kind of useless and adds travel time
4. The tracks have to go above this monstrosity on 9th Ave. & 2nd:

View attachment 619252

It'll be at +45 level, so above all of the walkways. But I hope it will drop to +30 level north of 9th ave so the station replaces the +30 between Core and Scotia Centre. Either way, I think that's the only walkway that should be significantly affected

 

[Red Star]

It'll be at +45 level, so above all of the walkways. But I hope it will drop to +30 level north of 9th ave so the station replaces the +30 between Core and Scotia Centre. Either way, I think that's the only walkway that should be significantly affected

45' above the ground!

What's the point of using a low-floor train?

 

[Nimbus]

Have to wonder if having an elevated green line next to this now affects things?

 

[darwink]

45' above the ground!

What's the point of using a low-floor train?

It has to be that high already to go over the CPR.

At this point we've already bought the trains. The marginal savings in the suburbs is Meh. It's not the worst outcome, not the best.

 

[lemongrab]

45' above the ground!

What's the point of using a low-floor train?

Obviously it's much better than 47' above the ground!

 

[CalgaryTiger]

Low floor does make for cheaper stations at non-elevated stops. Which is all the stops south of the stop near 26th Ave. And it also means it can turn tighter? Okay, I'm grasping at straws... They're already ordered, that's why they're low floor.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

My assumption is that it will run on the northside of 10th. So affected buildings will be Palliser South and Mount Royal House (which has a 8-story parkade podium). Single lane, two-way traffic should still work. I'm hoping there's a greenway under the elevated line and not parallel parking but I'm ready to be disappointed.

 

[lemongrab]

Low floor does make for cheaper stations at non-elevated stops. Which is all the stops south of the stop near 26th Ave. And it also means it can turn tighter? Okay, I'm grasping at straws... They're already ordered, that's why they're low floor.

Yup, ultimately it's not that big of a deal, but it eliminated some creative options as these costs erupted. I wish they pivoted to doing the 8 Ave subway for red line, and ran the SE as HF trains down 7th (after interlining with red line under the CPKC tracks). Timing would have even lined up perfectly with tearing up Olympic Plaza!

It never made sense to me to spend so much to tunnel what will be the lowest or 2nd lowest ridership of the 6 legs.