[JonnyCanuck]

What social distancing measures incorporated into the design could possibly make sense? You can't 'plan' to accommodate thousands of people in a space and practice physical distancing. In the event of another pandemic, large scale events will be cancelled just as they have been during this one which will render any design initiatives useless.

 

[Urban Outdoorsman]

Agreed, trying to include social-distancing into the event center is an aweful idea. I'm just imagining 20 years from now finding myself in the event center wondering why some seemingly stupid design choice was made, and realizing it was designed to combat a pandemic which was already over before they'd even built the damn thing.

 

[October]

That's exactly what's happening, one party, presumably the CMLC is trying to incorporate terrible design choices, which will obviously not hold up with time, and could potentially be obsolete within the next 12 months. Mean while CSEC is relaying to the city information about just how dumb they are.

 

[CBBarnett]

Agreed, trying to include social-distancing into the event center is an aweful idea. I'm just imagining 20 years from now finding myself in the event center wondering why some seemingly stupid design choice was made, and realizing it was designed to combat a pandemic which was already over before they'd even built the damn thing.

I am more curious to what socially distance measures this could mean as far as a arena goes.

No touch washrooms are standard practice already for facilities. The whole point of a new arena is to have far more concourse space and larger spaces compared to the Saddledome's crowded corridors - so there's more space there, but hardly a design change. Open air components are great but presumably incorporated already with the idea of having street-fronting patios blur the line between the indoor and outdoor spaces of the arena (as opposed to the old school, lock you inside and have blank walls on the outside). The seats won't be farther apart because that would make no sense....

What could a social distance measure be that would actually impact the design materially? Everything I described is pretty standard stuff in any new arena.

 

[Surrealplaces]

World's largest skateboard park

Thirdly, for all you Saddledome lovers out there, apparently the city and CSEC are looking for ways to incorporate the Saddledome into the future of the Rivers District rather than tearing it down. They believe the building has some historical significance to the city and they'd like to keep it around for hosting events, although i'm not sure what events because the building is essentially useless for anything other than sports. I doubt they find a feasible way to keep the building intact since the upkeep for the Saddledome costs a fortune. I honestly can't see it not being torn down.

 

[darwink]

Thirdly, for all you Saddledome lovers out there, apparently the city and CSEC are looking for ways to incorporate the Saddledome into the future of the Rivers District rather than tearing it down. They believe the building has some historical significance to the city and they'd like to keep it around for hosting events, although i'm not sure what events because the building is essentially useless for anything other than sports. I doubt they find a feasible way to keep the building intact since the upkeep for the Saddledome costs a fortune. I honestly can't see it not being torn down.

Given:

&

I bet you could remove most of the lower bowl without destroying the supportive structure, and use it as a very large open span exhibition space, and even as an indoor 'music festival' space/2nd tier concert space with a bit more care paid to washrooms.

Think about it as a 'super' big 4 replacement, instead of as a modification of the current use and I think you'll see a bit of what I think is possible there.

What social distancing measures incorporated into the design could possibly make sense?

More boxes, lodges, 'rails'. I could see it being CSEC wanting to get more expensive things they want anyways, using an excuse of social distancing to reduce overall ticket counts (remembering that a flat ticket 'tax' is how the facility is being paid for!)

 

[October]

The issue with concerts in the Saddledome is the roof. There's a reason that all the big acts pass up on Calgary for Edmonton and its not simply just because their arena is new. The roof has a very limited weight capacity, somewhere around 10,000 lbs, this means that performers cannot hang things like lights and such from the roof during their performance. This is because the roof is starting to rust away from the inside out due to the type of rebar and concrete pouring they used (or something like that), this is also why you always see workers on top of the 'Dome sealing the roof with that white coating since any moisture that gets in could be devastating. Theres also the issue that the acoustics inside the 'Dome are terrible, and that's of course because of the shape of the roof. However I could see it being used for things like rodeos, motorsports and things like that but not much else


Maybe a Bass Pro Shop like they did with the old Memphis Grizzlies Arena in Memphis?

 

[Beazley66]

Given:
View attachment 283336&View attachment 283337
I bet you could remove most of the lower bowl without destroying the supportive structure, and use it as a very large open span exhibition space, and even as an indoor 'music festival' space/2nd tier concert space with a bit more care paid to washrooms.

Think about it as a 'super' big 4 replacement, instead of as a modification of the current use and I think you'll see a bit of what I think is possible there.

More boxes, lodges, 'rails'. I could see it being CSEC wanting to get more expensive things they want anyways, using an excuse of social distancing to reduce overall ticket counts (remembering that a flat ticket 'tax' is how the facility is being paid for!)

I love thinking outside the box. I think your right about the lower bowl. The seating substructure is made up of repetitive precast concrete parts, lifted into place, and seating planks are probably precast hollow core. Looking at the aerial photo you kindly provided, I see a lot of potential for a non opaque skin, and maybe an operable roof. But to someone's point earlier, its the MEP work that may be a killer cost. But, there is nothing wrong with an interesting idea. Like.

 

[October]

What social distancing measures incorporated into the design could possibly make sense?

Apparently someone mentioned they should only install every other seat. Which is so absurd that it's actually kind of funny.

 

[darwink]

MEP

Sure, but if you can remove most of the load from the roof, you have a much larger margin to play with. Even if it only lasts 20 more years without a wholescale roof replacement, that is 20 years of making money. If it is a failed experiment, you can tear it down at any time.

 

[CBBarnett]

How long would the concrete structure of the Saddledome last if you stripped the roof off entirely? Essentially create a concrete outdoor amphitheatre and a few modifications. Have only outdoor shows, theatre - whatever. If we are going to tear it down anyway (and have money set aside to do that) just tear it down to the skeleton and use the savings from ripping into all that concrete to make it functional for outdoor. Saves us from some stupid Stampede version of an amphitheatre like in the master plan that will be even less useful and uglier.

Of course it won't last as long and be only used for parts of the year, but will be way cheaper to maintain and wouldn't compete with the indoor stuff plus risks being actually kind of cool contrast compared to our quest for a district of curvy, post-modern arenas and convention centres. If we get 10, 20, or 50 years out of it great - tear it down whenever we want to put a better use there or it really starts falling apart. That's a better outcome than a 10, 20 or 50 year parking lot which the Saddledome location is destined to become.

Essentially pull a trick out of all those old Roman coliseums like this 1,950 year old example in Nimes, France. Still used for the occasional concert, bullfight and theatre apparently:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arena_of_Nîmes

Other fun facts from that Wikipedia link about this coliseum:

• Was used for hundreds of years as part of the city's walls and defense, essentially became a castle. Survived several sieges.
• Spend a few hundred years as affordable housing as squatters moved in.
• Was first attempted to be restored to ancient standards in the late 1700s but was largely rebuilt by the 1850s
• Had a death of a famous balloonist in 1853 who took off in bad weather and fell to his death. Try doing that with a roof on Saddledome!

I get it: it's not a famous and over-engineered Roman master piece but surely we can use the concrete husk of the Saddledome for something more than a parking lot after a life of only 40 years (48x shorter than the Arena in Nimes).

 

[Roaring Flames]

Just demolish the sections above the lower bowl and use it as an amphitheater and if possible construct a new roof over said amphitheater.

 

[Joborule]

Apparently someone mentioned they should only install every other seat. Which is so absurd that it's actually kind of funny.

LOL.

If this misalignment is true currently between CSEC & CMLC because the latter wants social distance measures, it's surprising to see how hyperreactive CMLC is being, and quite frankly being very dumb on this subject. This pandemic is a very, very short term event in the long term, and by all means shouldn't even be a thing once the building is operational. And as said already, in the event of future pandemics that require physical distancing, there will be no events with attendance going on anywhere, so completely pointless.

If the city can somehow find a way to keep the Saddledome without it being a money loser, I wonder if they may consider going the route of Maple Leafs Gardens, and maybe do a farmers market as well a small scale arena for amateur level/semipro sports?

 

[Mountain Man]

If you are demolishing the roof, then demolish the whole building. The Roof is what makes the dome unique (and restricts events), without it what's the point?

 

[CBBarnett]

If you are demolishing the roof, then demolish the whole building. The Roof is what makes the dome unique (and restricts events), without it what's the point?

Yeah, but it's a bit of a catch-22: if we keep stuff because of fun roofs even if it's less functional, then we don't need a new arena besides an excuse to give the Flames some more public money and we all like shinier, newer things. If we want functional things and are less focused on fun roofs, we should consider anything that reuses the building (roof or not) as long as it has a functional purpose that meets the vibe of what we are trying to achieve in the area and as a city.

I think the goal for something as dubious of an investment as an arena should be to maximize repurposing and longevity of use so you build one every 100 years not every 35. That should drive as much of the design as possible. We can't know what technology, entertainment and sports will be played in 100 years, but we can safely assume there will still be a demand for a large format arena-type place. Fun curvy roofs are the opposite of this approach. Respectable, flexible and durable big boxes in good locations are the right idea.

What will happen is we will tear down the Saddledome and it will be a parking lot for 50 years. Later we will get some cheap, generic "Energy Company Presents the Stampede Heritage Amphitheatre". If there's a way we can avoid a parking lot and stop another bad venue from being created let's look into it.