[itsavro]

Long time lurker, first time poster. Seems like the city is now on the hook for all demolition costs in relation to the Saddledome instead of the province who originally stated they would pay for it. Found on page 20 in 3.3 Saddledome Obligations (a) of the Project Framework Agreement.

In the management lease agreement, the city also has the right to decide whether or not to restore/rebuild the event centre in the final five years of the initial 35-year term (or at any point in an extension/capital improvement extension term) if it gets damaged or destroyed.

 

[Mountain Man]

Is the province formally part of the agreement? My guess is they are giving the city money to cover the costs...

 

[CBBarnett]

I am still very curious about how they (i.e. CSEC, pro-arena Councilors, the province) managed to get all 15 Councilors (including many very vocally against it) to agree to this plan, and what carrots and sticks were used to produce that result. This is a group that famously doesn't vote 15-0 on practically anything.

Also strange to me is how little any of the 15 seem to have said since the decision about it.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

I am still very curious about how they (i.e. CSEC, pro-arena Councilors, the province) managed to get all 15 Councilors (including many very vocally against it) to agree to this plan, and what carrots and sticks were used to produce that result. This is a group that famously doesn't vote 15-0 on practically anything.

Also strange to me is how little any of the 15 seem to have said since the decision about it.

15 out of 15 councilors did not want to be apart of the council that let the flames walk. This doesn't get done, they walk. The NHL is a multi-billion dollar business, Murray Edwards is worth billions; those two things do not factor in at all as arena economics simply do not add up for the NHL or team owners to pay for their own arena's in small markets. Thus city's step up and pay the bill.

 

[CBBarnett]

15 out of 15 councilors did not want to be apart of the council that let the flames walk. This doesn't get done, they walk. The NHL is a multi-billion dollar business, Murray Edwards is worth billions; those two things do not factor in at all as arena economics simply do not add up for the NHL or team owners to pay for their own arena's in small markets. Thus city's step up and pay the bill.

I get that rhetoric, but what you are saying isn't demonstrated in evidence from previous votes - risking the Calgary Flames walking has always been at play and never stopped some voting against in previous deals. What changed this time that forced their hand?

 

[itsavro]

It appears that there will be a 9.5% facility fee tackled onto tickets for all events.

 

[outoftheice]

Interesting that there's no real mention of street-facing retail/restaurants or street presense which was a big bone of contention in the previous arena design.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1753131313660678323

 

[Nawads]

It appears that there will be a 9.5% facility fee tackled onto tickets for all events.

I'm curious, will the revenue from this fee be paid to the city on top of the lease payment by CSEC?

 

[CBBarnett]

I'm curious, will the revenue from this fee be paid to the city on top of the lease payment by CSEC?

I read that as 9.5% will be charged, a portion of that will be the amount the city is able to collect. Flames keep the rest.

Sure seems like the flames got a billion dollar arena for a $40M one time payment, plus future tickets pay the rest….

 

[Unknown User]

I read that as 9.5% will be charged, a portion of that will be the amount the city is able to collect. Flames keep the rest.

Sure seems like the flames got a billion dollar arena for a $40M one time payment, plus future tickets pay the rest….

I'm a firm believer that the ticket tax has been purposefully obfuscated to ensure the paying public has no idea of the Flames real contribution to this. The previous attempts it always seemed more clearly stated, this time around bury it in some paper and make sure even then it's not 100% clear.

 

[Urban4Lyfe]

Where exactly would the flames "walk" to?

It's far more complicated than just moving the team because the owner doesn't get his tax payer money.

 

[Albertasaurus]

15 out of 15 councilors did not want to be apart of the council that let the flames walk. This doesn't get done, they walk. The NHL is a multi-billion dollar business, Murray Edwards is worth billions; those two things do not factor

Where exactly would the flames "walk" to?

It's far more complicated than just moving the team because the owner doesn't get his tax payer money.

Agreed. Calgary is a solid hockey market. Huge head office town, fast growing city. The Flames still draw well considering their facility is among most outdated in NHL and the team is shit for the most part. Where's the team going to go? Other than Houston most of the other big markets already have teams. Quebec City is a much smaller market, half the size and lacking Calgary's big corporate sector. This isn't like the situation in the 90s when the Jets and Nords left and the Canucks, Flames, Oilers and Sens all looked like they might follow suit.

 

[BrandedBlue]

Agreed. Calgary is a solid hockey market. Huge head office town, fast growing city. The Flames still draw well considering their facility is among most outdated in NHL and the team is shit for the most part. Where's the team going to go? Other than Houston most of the other big markets already have teams. Quebec City is a much smaller market, half the size and lacking Calgary's big corporate sector. This isn't like the situation in the 90s when the Jets and Nords left and the Canucks, Flames, Oilers and Sens all looked like they might follow suit.

I'm not a fan of the arena subsidy, but Salt Lake City just announced that they want an NHL expansion franchise and they have an arena that could accommodate NHL games. I bet they'd choose a relocated team over paying a $650 million+ expansion fee like Seattle.

If there was still no arena deal for Calgary, I'm sure Gary Bettman would be threatening council through the media that the NHL has a relocation partner ready to go in the next year or two. Plus, 32 teams seems like an ideal number for the NHL to stick with.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

Don't kid yourselves, if this arena wasn't built the team would leave. It might not have been tomorrow but the flames would not stay indefinitely. The NHL has plans for major expansion, upwards of 36 teams, there are cities with arenas ready to go (Houston, Kansas City, Atlanta (about to be under construction), Salt Lake). Calgary is a fine city, I love it here but without a new arena they were good as gone. The city paid that money to keep them here. Is that a good investment? Probably not, something else would've filled the flames void but council made a choice.

 

[darwink]

I am still very curious about how they (i.e. CSEC, pro-arena Councilors, the province) managed to get all 15 Councilors (including many very vocally against it) to agree to this plan

The Saddledome isn’t getting any younger. While we don’t have a public report forecasting $400 million for a renewal with a closure to extend life to 2050 without much quality of life improvements it is within the realm of possibility. Edmontons forecast for renewal without structural issues was above $250 million 15 years ago.

Changes the calculus quite a bit.

I dont know why this case wasn’t made. I think it sells way better than the mish mash case made by council. And has the benefit of being true.