CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
16th Ave > Macleod Trail.
- Thread starter Albertasaurus
- Start date
Agreed. Even though both have a similar lane setup (3 lanes per side, with a 7th lane in the centre for left hand turning) 16th ave much better than Macleod, and with some tweaking could potentially be a semi decent retail corridor.
Mountain Man
Senior Member
I still hope 16th can one day become Calgary's version of Broadway in Vancouver...
Red Star
New Member
I'd love to see a bus-only transitway installed down the median of 16th ave for the MAX Orange line. Something similar to what was installed on 17th ave in Forest Lawn. I think it would greatly increase bus travel times and increase transit ridership.
Albertasaurus
Active Member
There is actually an eclectic mix of cool businesses on the north side of 16th that seem to have been quite successful. But the city seriously needs to invest in replacing those sidewalks on the north side with something much safer and wider. They've got a steep slope towards the road and it feels quite treacherous in the winter months.
dazzlingdave88
Active Member
I wonder how a Shoppers at this location will impact the one 6 blocks away on Centre and 14th ave? Are they going to keep both? The one on Centre recently went through renos to accomodate Canada Post moving in.
CBBarnett
Senior Member
Example below is demonstrative of the issues - this is the MAX Orange WB station just west of this site, this is how the residents of this new development will take transit to the SAIT, U of C and the hospitals.
- The original 16th Ave expansion (circa 2005 ish) was supposed to complete the nice wide sidewalks for the whole corridor length. The project hit all sorts of scope and cost issues, political meddling and transportation bias that resulted in the sidewalk portion dropped in this stretch. Note what wasn't dropped - the generous median, the designed flags and street lights, the wide outside lane (4.5m wide ish), the various sound-walls that are anti-thetical to a main street style active street etc. In fact, the only part of the scope dropped was the sidewalks - a lot of good that did too, project still came in at 2 or 3x the original budget.
- MAX BRT comes along in the mid 2010s. Because the first project didn't fix the sidewalks as it was supposed to, MAX has to. However, the scope and budget is limited to to the transit station area itself so you have an island of acceptable sidewalks in a sea of crap ones.
- The MAX station was located half-way down the block because the original project didn't managed to consolidate the vehicle accesses off 16th Avenue at the corner of 16th and 4th. So instead of locating at the intersection to facilitate access like 99% of BRT systems in the world, we now we have a rapid transit station in a sub-optimal spot that can only be accessed by 100m of narrow, crumbling sidewalks with several fast food driveways cutting over them.
To be fair to the 2005-era project, it was never really setup for success. Political factions and manipulations were alive and well back then as they are now, battling between competing objectives. Pedestrians and supporting urban development lost that important 2005-era battle, in an era where that movement was really just beginning in Calgary. But learning from all this is critical - the trade-off choices being made at the project level, largely hidden from public view or comment, are often out of step of the broader policy and plan objectives. It's why we can't get our crosswalks to line up with ramps, why we have wide sweeping anti-pedestrian right turns and truck accesses, and why we don't have street parking on 16th Ave despite the lanes being designed for it nearly 20 years ago.
This is combining with timing and coordination issues over a period of two decades to result in a pretty run-down corridor with lots of potential, many missed opportunities and a sub-optimal BRT design.
Sidenote - it's actually remarkable how invasive the 2005 expansion was. Here's this project's rough footprint overlayed with 2005 and 2023 aerials:
Albertasaurus
Active Member
I think it'll be fine. Shoppers is known for often having stores pretty close together with one another, and this one will likely draw in Rosedale and Mt Pleasant customers who probably wouldn't venture to Centre St anyways.
MichaelS
Senior Member
The sidewalk on the north side will be expanded/improved as development occurs. Ther is a 5.182m public realm setback (table 1 of the Land Use Bylaw) that will be used to ensure a proper wide sidewalk will be built and boulevard trees will be planted. However, this approach does have its flaws, as it is reliant on a landowner developing and creates very piecemeal upgrades (or none at all) for decades. But, that is the Calgary way usually.
There's also another one a bit further away at North Hill Mall, but one thing about Shoppers' they always seem to be busy.
konradiical
Active Member
I hope they do something with North Hill Mall, it is the deadest mall ever and inner city location. You could do so much to redevelop it and its huge lot
I think I read on here somewhere that there is ongoing remediation at North Hill due to a leaky gas station. Once that is completed, I agree that it's a prime location - inner city, near LRT, BRT, SAIT, AUArts, and apartments would have great views, even.
Albertasaurus
Active Member
Around 5 or so years ago there was a plan to redevelop North Hill Mall with some big residential towers (one proposed at 50+ floors). The ownership is split between Concord Pacific (I think?) and Bentall (I also think?) with the old Sears store being the dividing line for ownership. I can't remember which side was to be redeveloped, but it was the part owned by Concord. Unfortunately nothing came of it but with our population growing like crazy maybe it will resurface at some point?
One thing I have noticed is that North Hill seems to be doing better than it had been, there are less retail vacancies than there used to be.
One thing I have noticed is that North Hill seems to be doing better than it had been, there are less retail vacancies than there used to be.
North Hill's a funny mall. The west end with Safeway, the food court, and the Registry is one of the busiest places in the city all day long. Go a couple of hundred feet to the east and the mall suddenly goes dead. It's a shame because it has such great potential as a mall and as a TOD.
- a post secondary institution next door, with another one two LRT stops away.
- dozens and dozens of multi-family projects going up within a two kilometer radius
- a huge area on the east side that could easily house 3-4 towers (with remediation complete of course)
You could redo the mall as a shorter two level mall with a second floor walkway out of the mall across to the LRT station.
- a post secondary institution next door, with another one two LRT stops away.
- dozens and dozens of multi-family projects going up within a two kilometer radius
- a huge area on the east side that could easily house 3-4 towers (with remediation complete of course)
You could redo the mall as a shorter two level mall with a second floor walkway out of the mall across to the LRT station.
Red Star
New Member
I'm too young to remember, but I heard that 16th Ave. used to be a complete mess for auto traffic. Particularly, semi-trucks passing through as it was on the Trans-Canada Highway and the ring road was not opened yet. I think the widening of 16th Ave. was a waste of money as the city should have just waited for the ring road to open up. The widening of 16th Ave. seems like it was trying to make 16th Ave. do too many things...it's a grand boulevard, but it's also a thoroughfare and also a stroad. Yet, it didn't seem to achieve any objectives. I personally don't enjoy driving on 16th ave. as there is lots of traffic and lights. And I don't enjoy walking on 16th Ave. as the sidewalks are narrow.