highpark
New Member
http://www.cleantrain.ca/index.php
We DON'T need to have more diesel trains running through Toronto!
We DON'T need to have more diesel trains running through Toronto!
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- Thread starter highpark
- Start date
rbt
Senior Member
Meh.. Ditch the trains and just pave that route already.
It's big enough for 4 and possibly 6 lanes of expressway. That allows far more freedom at the end points as there is no need for stations or parking and we avoid the diesel locomotives which seems to be a worthy goal.
It's big enough for 4 and possibly 6 lanes of expressway. That allows far more freedom at the end points as there is no need for stations or parking and we avoid the diesel locomotives which seems to be a worthy goal.
kEiThZ
Superstar
nfitz
Superstar
I'm all for more diesel trains myself. Beats all the stinky cars!
I think it stinks that the stinky Westonites are delaying transit upgrades!
Long Island Mike
Senior Member
Clean Train Coalition: A interesting NIMBY-type group...
Everyone: I recall seeing a protest video from this Summer on a link from the Toronto Sun about this group seeking to force GO and Metrolinx to electrify the entire GO Transit's Georgetown Line - I had never seen a NIMBY-type group with this kind of view before...
I remember thinking "Hey-it is not that easy" knowing that GO would have to take title to this line and then spend a large sum electrifying that line - and reading about their view of electrifying the entire GO system - remembering the large cost and then taking title to the strategic rail lines from CN and CP
would have to happen and then they may have issues regarding freight service...and remembering that there is no past history in Toronto railways to perhaps work from - comparing it with the AMT Deux-Montagnes Line in the Montreal area.
Don't get me wrong-I would like to see GO improved but is this group expecting just too much here? Thoughts from LI MIKE
Everyone: I recall seeing a protest video from this Summer on a link from the Toronto Sun about this group seeking to force GO and Metrolinx to electrify the entire GO Transit's Georgetown Line - I had never seen a NIMBY-type group with this kind of view before...
I remember thinking "Hey-it is not that easy" knowing that GO would have to take title to this line and then spend a large sum electrifying that line - and reading about their view of electrifying the entire GO system - remembering the large cost and then taking title to the strategic rail lines from CN and CP
would have to happen and then they may have issues regarding freight service...and remembering that there is no past history in Toronto railways to perhaps work from - comparing it with the AMT Deux-Montagnes Line in the Montreal area.
Don't get me wrong-I would like to see GO improved but is this group expecting just too much here? Thoughts from LI MIKE
kettal
Banned
Considering that new diesel locomotive fleets cost more than electrification, there's really no reason not to electrify. Except for stubbornness, I guess.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
^^ Would they cost more than the cost of electrification as well as buying new electric locomotives?
I believe that electrification should come soon. The Georgetown and Lakeshore lines are perfect candidates for this, and GO should be getting on electrification ASAP. I'm okay with using Diesel Locomotives for the Georgetown line for a few years until Electrification comes in, but I don't think GO should be buying any diesel stock anymore. If full Georgetown line service requires buying new locomotives, I'd rather them wait for electrification than buy new diesel locomotives that'll just give them a reason to not do anything about the situation.
I believe that electrification should come soon. The Georgetown and Lakeshore lines are perfect candidates for this, and GO should be getting on electrification ASAP. I'm okay with using Diesel Locomotives for the Georgetown line for a few years until Electrification comes in, but I don't think GO should be buying any diesel stock anymore. If full Georgetown line service requires buying new locomotives, I'd rather them wait for electrification than buy new diesel locomotives that'll just give them a reason to not do anything about the situation.
kettal
Banned
Electric locomotives are very expensive. The purchase of electric locomotives would be a mistake.
Electric-multiple-units, however, are a lot cheaper per trainset than diesel locomotive trains. The savings here would be huge. EMU can also push unpowered GO bi-levels, without the need for a locomotive.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
^^ Oh, okay. That could actually open up a lot of possibilities. And makes a lot of sense, of course.
doady
Senior Member
What about diesel multiple units?
kettal
Banned
They're also pretty cheap, and provide better acceleration than go's current trains. However, they make pollution and noise, and aren't as good at accelerating as electric. They're also susceptible to the fluctuations in diesel prices which have known to double in a year.
So if GO was to contract the design and building of self-propelled multiple unit cars to the Bi-level spec, it wouldn't be worth the waste of time and energy to design a new diesel. It's just not the future.
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
^^ To clarify, they make a hell of a lot of noise and discomfort for people inside the train.
GO should buy regular EMUs right now to supplement their current Bi-Levels. The EMUs should provide an ample increase in acceleration even if half of the cars are EMU. That lets GO customize their trains to fit the passenger demand. Maybe 20 or 30 years down the road, they might want to buy Bi-Level electric EMUs for their high ridership lines, eg. Lakeshore.
GO should buy regular EMUs right now to supplement their current Bi-Levels. The EMUs should provide an ample increase in acceleration even if half of the cars are EMU. That lets GO customize their trains to fit the passenger demand. Maybe 20 or 30 years down the road, they might want to buy Bi-Level electric EMUs for their high ridership lines, eg. Lakeshore.
rbt
Senior Member
You know, wholesale electricity prices in Ontario actually went negative a couple of times this spring (they pay you to use electricity) and at other times are over $1 per kwh.
Diesel pricing is significantly more stable than wholesale electricity pricing without some type of "package" wrapping it.
kettal
Banned
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
I'd be interested to see where Go's upkeep costs are allocated. I mean, how much can actually be spent on fuel compared to bigger things like operators, land rent (?) and other things that I can't think of right now? I guess that every penny saved is for the greater good, which just makes electrification an even better option.
But I think that Electrification's biggest merits will be reduced travel times, a more comfortable ride and just being better for the environment. Biggest thing for Go has got to be reduced travel times. Doing so will make the train actually very competitive with cars, which now gives Go a huge edge.
But I think that Electrification's biggest merits will be reduced travel times, a more comfortable ride and just being better for the environment. Biggest thing for Go has got to be reduced travel times. Doing so will make the train actually very competitive with cars, which now gives Go a huge edge.