[David Brake]

I wanted to commute into Toronto on the GO Train with my bike but found that the definition of "peak hour" when bikes were banned was broad enough to make it impractical. The rules about cycles on the subway were even more restrictive. And the rules about electric and foldable bikes were opaque at best. Does anyone bring their bikes on public transit aside from buses? Let's talk about our experiences...

 

[salsa]

The rules are pretty clear to me.

On weekdays, due to rush-hour crowding, upright or non-foldable bicycles are not permitted on trains scheduled to arrive at Union Station between 6:30 and 9:30 a.m. or that leave Union Station between 3:30 and 6:30 p.m. Non-foldable bicycles are also prohibited inside Union Station during those times. Foldable bicycles, however, are permitted on inside Union Station and on peak-hour trains.

Bicycles are permitted on all other trains, including weekday off-peak, and those travelling opposite to peak direction. For example, you may bring your bicycle on trains travelling away from Union Station in the morning peak period as long as you do not board at Union Station. Similarly, you can bring your bicycle on trains travelling towards Union Station in the afternoon peak period as long as you get off the train before it arrives at Union.​

 

[nfitz]

Some people use two bikes. Leave one at Union, or use a bike share.

 

[steveintoronto]

the definition of "peak hour" when bikes were banned was broad enough to make it impractical.

My take on this, studying it for some years, is that there is a hard fast rule that is then countered by provisos. Having trouble with this keyboard at work, will detail later at home. I have a lot, good and bad, to add to this string. Will give others the heads-up on this forum too.

 

[Napoleon]

BART used to have a similarly restrictive policy. After a free-for-all, they have adopted a policy which bans bikes from the first 3 cars during commute hours:
http://www.bart.gov/guide/bikes

I would say that it's been a bit of a mixed bag in my experience...some cars have an awful lot of bikes on them, which makes getting on/off a crowded train a bit difficult. Nonetheless, it's significantly enhanced the ability to get people to BART stations in areas with less than ideal local transit or full parking lots.

 

[steveintoronto]

The rules are pretty clear to me.

On weekdays, due to rush-hour crowding, upright or non-foldable bicycles are not permitted on trains scheduled to arrive at Union Station between 6:30 and 9:30 a.m. or that leave Union Station between 3:30 and 6:30 p.m. Non-foldable bicycles are also prohibited inside Union Station during those times. Foldable bicycles, however, are permitted on inside Union Station and on peak-hour trains.​

Saslsa, excellent to see you and others here, this has gone viral, but you have not mentioned the provisos (e.g. Going opposite to rush-hour direction, specifics that cover Union St only, etc). I suss that *those* are the details that render things ambiguous for David and others. Some staff are really good about it, others not, and some can make your life miserable just by your trying to do the right thing.

Back later this evening, this keyboard having problems.

 

[LNahid2000]

BART used to have a similarly restrictive policy. After a free-for-all, they have adopted a policy which bans bikes from the first 3 cars during commute hours:
http://www.bart.gov/guide/bikes

The difference in San Francisco is that there isn't any way to get across the bay by bike (other than a 50km detour) without using public transit.

 

[salsa]

Saslsa, excellent to see you and others here, this has gone viral, but you have not mentioned the provisos (e.g. Going opposite to rush-hour direction, specifics that cover Union St only, etc). I suss that *those* are the details that render things ambiguous for David and others.

I didn't mention that part, I will add it to my original post.

Bicycles are permitted on all other trains, including weekday off-peak, and those travelling opposite to peak direction. For example, you may bring your bicycle on trains travelling away from Union Station in the morning peak period as long as you do not board at Union Station. Similarly, you can bring your bicycle on trains travelling towards Union Station in the afternoon peak period as long as you get off the train before it arrives at Union.

​

More information can be found here: http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/travelling/leaveyourcar.aspx#cycling

 

[steveintoronto]

David's dilemma just became first person for me! Following the link salsa supplied, I've just realized I've been getting on the 17:50 from Union to Kitchener illegally by thinking I was being legal getting on at Bloor at 18:00!

Just got home, and glanced through this:
[...][You may take a bicycle on any GO Train on a Saturday, Sunday, or statutory holiday.

On weekdays, due to rush-hour crowding, upright or non-foldable bicycles are not permitted on trains scheduled to arrive at Union Station between 6:30 and 9:30 a.m. or that leave Union Station between 3:30 and 6:30 p.m. Non-foldable bicycles are also prohibited inside Union Station during those times. Foldable bicycles, however, are permitted on inside Union Station and on peak-hour trains.

Bicycles are permitted on all other trains, including weekday off-peak, and those travelling opposite to peak direction.

For example, you may bring your bicycle on trains travelling away from Union Station in the morning peak period as long as you do not board at Union Station. Similarly, you can bring your bicycle on trains travelling towards Union Station in the afternoon peak period as long as you get off the train before it arrives at Union.][...]
http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/travelling/leaveyourcar.aspx#cycling

Huh? Very poorly written....but I*think* I know what they're stating...but here's the *essential* question:

Have they defined "foldable"? To get on the TGV and many rush-hour and regular trains now in the UK, since they no longer have a 'guard's van' in most cases, the 'tout bag for a bike' has become the way to do it. And GO is going to have to bend a bit on this. Can most cyclists take off their wheels and reinstall them in a minute? No...not helped by the fact that 'hangers' on frames (that little 'nail head' that's brazed (lol...sorry kids, 'welded') to the right rear seat stay to hang your chain on so as to make re-installing the rear wheel quick and easy, and stop the chain from dragging everywhere until you do.)

See: http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/where-have-all-chain-hangers-gone-18328.html

It makes it a lot easier to get the disassembled bike into the carry-bag too. Add-on chain hanger clips are available from any real bike shop (MEC, Urbane, etc)

I have limited sympathy for cyclists who can't do that, let alone change a flat, but I'm 'Old School'...but if you wish take two spaces in a packed GO coach, and be unwieldy doing that during peak time, then the onus is on the cyclist to compact his/her machine into the space, *or less* of a 'foldable bike'...which in essence, is what you are doing.

GO could make a tidy little profit selling the 'tout bags' from a stall at major stations, or better yet, allow a franchise to do it, and show people how to do it. The demand would be enormous. And I think the idea of one or two cars of a 12 car train allowing passengers with 'tout bags' to travel would be an excellent idea. Is this too pricey for some? Inevitably, but if you have a machine that cost you over thousand bucks, you'd be an idiot to leave it locked-up somewhere unsupervised. If you have an expensive machine, you're *exactly* the rider that would pay a hundred bucks for a bag, to keep it clean and safe, and keep those travelling around you clean and safe.

This has to happen...

Edit to Add:
Taking a bike on TGV High Speed Trains France SNCF March 26 2014
Many people like to travel to France with their bike and why not, it is of course a fabulous country for cycling, quieter roads, more space and great scenery a real cycling country.

The TGV high speed train network covers much of France and is relatively bike friendly as you would expect with the volume of bicycle tourism that the country attracts. Bikes can be carried on as hand luggage and stowed on the luggage racks within the carriages as long as the bike is in a bag with maximum dimensions of 120 cm x 90 cm. Full size bikes unpacked can be accommodated but need to be booked in advance and may not travel in the carriage with you. Failure to comply with these regulations can involve an on the spot fine which can make a hole in your holiday budget.

Our duffbag Stealth soft bike bag is 120cm x 90cm and has been successfully used on many journeys on the TGV High Speed Train network with SNCF France. The big advantage with a Stealth bike bag is the light weight, (under 2kg) together with the ability to fold down really small to stash in a support vehicle or pannier which makes negotiating the TGV High Speed train network in France with a road bike, mountain bike or touring bike that much easier.

[...]
http://duffbag.myshopify.com/blogs/news/13138145-taking-a-bike-on-tgv-high-speed-trains-france-sncf

March 18 2014

Technically you are allowed to take a bike on the London underground Tube network at certain times of day and on certain lines. In reality turning up with a bike at a Tube station is going to cause a few problems.

For example you cannot take bikes on moving escalators at any underground station, which means you have to find one with a lift. You can’t travel at peak time either (07.30 – 09.30 and 16.00 – 19.00, Monday to Friday, except for public holidays).

Well to be honest if you have ever traveled at peak time on London Underground you really would not take a bike down there unless you wanted to end up wearing it.

As part of our product testing for our new duffbag Stealth bag we decided to see if we could take a bike in our bag through the London Underground network unhindered, possibly passing through sections where bikes were not allowed. Would we be arrested? Get thrown off the Tube network, end up on News at Ten? This is what happened…

[...continues at length, with vid linked and more...]
http://duffbag.myshopify.com/blogs/news/12944253-taking-a-bike-on-london-underground-tube

Mountain Equipment Co-op and other local bike emporiums sell this (albeit this is ridiculously pricey)

Much cheaper ones can be had, and you don't have to remove your pedals to satisfy "folding bike" criteria. The main thing is to take off *at least* your front wheel and bag-it, to keep the other sardines clean and safe.

I'll detail more later. The answers are there! If the Province *really* wants to get people off the roads, they'll do like US jurisdictions do: Put a bike rack in one of the cars. Short of that, then allow two cars to host people with 'bikes in bags'.

David: How does that sit with you?

 

[steveintoronto]

With the newer bi-levels, instead of those awkward inward facing double seats just inside the doors at the beginning of the centre aisle, there's now an open space, ostensibly to increase standing capacity by the doors. The original seating plan left a lot to be desired anyway....but for cyclists who can and do pop-off their front wheels, it offers a *very* efficient usage of space to up-end the bike with the front-wheel popped-off, such that it balances on the forks pointed into the corner and handlebars away from the corner, and the frame and up-ended rear-wheel rested up against the wall, tight in the corner. The space taken is less than a standing passenger would once the front-wheel is tucked into the space left between the frame and partition wall.

A tote-bag will work wonders for the avid sports cyclist, it would be an imposition for many serious commuter cyclists, however. But no matter what quality of machine you have, a quick-release front wheel (and quick removal front fender, if used) makes *many* transportation challenges infinitely easier. Many SUV's and sedans will take a bike in the back with the hatch closed if the front wheel pops off. But in the case of the GO bi-levels, vertically positioning bikes is the answer to efficient use of space. The conundrum for compact use of space is that the handlebars are right angled to the front wheel. With the front wheel off, the handlebars can stash sideways if stood forks up, or the handlebars can be the resting surface on the ground if stood rear-wheel up, my preferred method, since it stays in place and stable w/o being tethered, and the bars, the widest part of the machine, are on the floor where they are far less intrusive to space and act to balance the position.

The opposite of efficient space-use is clearly demonstrated with the presently assigned under-stairs seats for bikes. It's a very inefficient and a *dangerous let alone awkward place* for bikes, which have to be placed horizontally, not to mention it blocks three seats. No wonder that's banned during peak times. Popping off the front wheel helps, especially to allow getting the machine behind the post but it's still a terrible use of space. GO could provide four rush-hour permitted vertically positioned velcro tethered spots in the position mentioned by the doors. Most bikes *should* stand vertically on the fork tips and handlebars by themselves, I have drop bars and there's absolutely no problem resting on the brake calipers with the rear wheel upended and resting against either the glass partition, or the wall. (I've found against the partition to be best) The velcro straps attached at top to tether to the back wheel rim at the highest point would ensure that the machine is stable and safe if somebody brushes up against it, or in sudden lurches of the coach.

Check it out next time you're on the train. Look at that space. Velcro strap(s) could be attached to the coach surfaces in a number of spots to accommodate different sizes of frames and to keep the detached front wheel in place tucked behind the frame. The attached velcro would just hang when not used, be of absolutely no imposition when not being used.

The onus would be on cyclists who wish to use this to adapt their machines for QR axles if they don't already have them so. There's no way this will work efficiently w/o a quick-release front wheel unless one carries a wrench with them to loosen and tighten nuts. Needless to say, this works much better with road bikes, since the the fork lugs aren't dished/recessed to prevent the wheel falling off if the QR comes loose in transit, but still, if you insist on riding an off-road or hybrid type, you'll just have to spend a few more seconds unwinding the QR lever once released to detach the wheel.

To make this work, cyclists must take a degree of effort to detach the front wheel, but once done, there's absolutely no reason GO should find fault with this. I ask some of you to try this, take pics, post them here, and let's show GO. It's the stuff of a campaign. It will immediately work with their present latest seating arrangement, and it works so well that perhaps they can adapt a coach to take even more. The trick is *efficient use of space*! And vertically is the only way to do it.

Suitable for heavy junkers? No...absolutely not...but since there's no integrity in a junker to satisfy the needs of serious cycling commuters, they disqualify themselves by default. Most serious cycling commuters have invested in quality machines anyway. They're the ones that should be catered to.

 

[salsa]

I was in NYC recently with my bicycle, and I wanted to bring it on board a Long Island Railroad train just for one time. So I look at the rules (which also apply to Metro North), for the most part it's usual stuff that you would expect until I saw point #2.

That's right, they want you to have a bicycle permit in order to be allowed to bring your bike onto the train. Here's what you have to do to get one:

So after I went through that hassle, this is what it looks like. For something that is supposed to be good for life, the card itself is not the most durable. It's printed on paper that's not even laminated, which the above rules ask that you do not try to laminate it. The blue ink with my name (redacted) is also already starting to smear and rub off. I've had 1-year membership cards from various cycling organizations that were much better quality than this "lifetime" permit.

In fact the permit is printed on the same paper as the train ticket (image from google). But the ticket is meant for one time use, the permit is not. And the two look so similar that I accidentally handed the permit to the fare inspector instead of my actual ticket.

In my opinion, this whole bicycle permit requirement is a dumb and unnecessary annoyance that works against the idea of encouraging people to combine bikes and transit as a travel option. Honestly this wasn't worth the effort since I only planned to do one train trip with the bike, a trip that I didn't need to do in the first place. But I still got the permit anyway in case that one day, maybe, I will visit New York again in the future and find use for it.

I now have greater appreciation for GO Transit since they don't impose this nonsense on us. Now if only the GO lines ran with the same amazing frequency as in NYC, that would be fabulous.

 

[steveintoronto]

Salsa:
That's pretty onerous and regressive, but where in the cars is the bike stashed, and how?

Edit to Add: As bad as a 'permit' sounds....let's look at the upside of this, and ask the forum: *IF* that permit allowed only serious and regular cycling commuters status to somehow stash a serious machine on the train during peak times, would that put a completely different onus on 'onerous'?

I'd *gladly* do it if it meant I'd established to GO that I'm responsible and serious enough to secure and compact my machine in a way that imposition on others is completely minimized, and that someone with a hulking junker couldn't just jump on and try to do the same to the detriment of everyone.

I see a possibility of GO catering to the more serious cycling commuter if certain conditions are met. It's not unlike a licence. Make no mistake, this wouldn't be anything like what MTA does, it has to allow for a better way for all, and a permit w/ conditions of ability to stash and compact a machine would be a win for all with a minimal imposition. If approached with the right attitude, I suspect initially, to prove the concept, GO wouldn't charge for this 'permit'.

I've contacted GO to get their input and views, and volunteered to meet them and discuss ideas and see if some methods would permit doing this even during peak times. The initial response? (gist) "We want to make better ideas work".

Let me ask the forum: How many of you have QR (Quick Release) front wheels? You'll notice in GO's own promotion material for bike racks that all the bikes shown have QR wheels.

See: http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/docs/publications/GO_Bike_By_Bus.pdf

 

[W. K. Lis]

I was in NYC recently with my bicycle, and I wanted to bring it on board a Long Island Railroad train just for one time. So I look at the rules (which also apply to Metro North), for the most part it's usual stuff that you would expect until I saw point #2.

View attachment 71677

...

In my opinion, this whole bicycle permit requirement is a dumb and unnecessary annoyance that works against the idea of encouraging people to combine bikes and transit as a travel option. Honestly this wasn't worth the effort since I only planned to do one train trip with the bike, a trip that I didn't need to do in the first place. But I still got the permit anyway in case that one day, maybe, I will visit New York again in the future and find use for it.

I now have greater appreciation for GO Transit since they don't impose this nonsense on us. Now if only the GO lines ran with the same amazing frequency as in NYC, that would be fabulous.

Seems to me that they consider the bicycle to be a "passenger" and want to collect a fare because it takes up space. Next, baby strollers?

 

[salsa]

That's pretty onerous and regressive, but where in the cars is the bike stashed, and how?

I'm not too sure how the bikes are supposed to be stored because the rules are not very clear to me, and there are no pictures to show how it's done.

Edit to Add: As bad as a 'permit' sounds....let's look at the upside of this, and ask the forum: *IF* that permit allowed only serious and regular cycling commuters status to somehow stash a serious machine on the train during peak times, would that put a completely different onus on 'onerous'?

If you're proposing an optional permit that would grant cyclists certain privileges such as what you describe above, then perhaps it's not a bad idea. But in NYC, despite the permit system, it doesn't actually allow bikes on the trains during peak times. Those times are indicated by the grey shaded area on a train schedule.

Outside peak hours, there are also certain trains that don't allow bikes where there's a no-bicycle symbol on the schedule.

And also, bikes are not allowed on most holidays. You would have to check the website to know what those days are.

Which by the way, I had a really hard time finding all this information through the MTA's website. I had to search on google to find what I was looking for. There's lots that should be improved.

 

[salsa]

Seems to me that they consider the bicycle to be a "passenger" and want to collect a fare because it takes up space. Next, baby strollers?

However the permit and its fee is one time only, so it's not exactly equivalent to a fare.