Glen
Senior Member
Do you feel that the TTC should offer a cheaper Metro-pass rate for city residents?
I voted Yes.
I voted Yes.
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- Thread starter Glen
- Start date
RedRocket191
Senior Member
I voted no because I believe that we have to encourage long distance and inter-municipal trips to be made on transit. A Toronto resident working in Toronto is very likely to take transit, but a Newmarket resident working in Toronto is much less likely.
While we don't want to encourage people to move farther and farther from the city, we have to be careful not to penalize those who cannot afford to live in the city.
And if the spirit of full disclosure, I live in the 905 and recognize that it influences my decision.
While we don't want to encourage people to move farther and farther from the city, we have to be careful not to penalize those who cannot afford to live in the city.
And if the spirit of full disclosure, I live in the 905 and recognize that it influences my decision.
Whoaccio
Senior Member
The TTC should charge as close to fare by distance as possible. I don't mean arbitrary fare zones, I mean per-km traveled on RT services. That would be fair to everyone.
I guess it doesn't make sense for the TTC to subsidize 905ers, but the logistical costs of determining who is from the 416 n 905 would probably wipe any savings out.
I guess it doesn't make sense for the TTC to subsidize 905ers, but the logistical costs of determining who is from the 416 n 905 would probably wipe any savings out.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Rainforest
Exactly. The metropasses are transferrable now, so if Mr. Smith lives in 905, what stops him from asking his friend Mr. Jones of 416 to be his mailbox for the metropass.
Exactly. The metropasses are transferrable now, so if Mr. Smith lives in 905, what stops him from asking his friend Mr. Jones of 416 to be his mailbox for the metropass.
urbanfan89
Active Member
I'm sure this will cause a great arbitrage business between 416 and 905 residents. Heck there's no way to stop it!
Glen
Senior Member
I have always supported the idea of a pay for distance fare scheme. Still, Toronto tax payers support the TTC via non fare contributions thus are really paying more. IIRC, Chicago has something similar for attractions, the 'city pass'. The rates are different for residents and non residents. I am sure it would not be too hard to to figure out who qualifies.
TOareaFan
Superstar
There are probably a lot of possible responses to that but here are the first couple that come to mind:
1. The province kicks in money to the TTC every year....they may not do it automatically and it may be a struggle getting the cash out of them but they do give it....that money is coming from all taxpayers
2. the residents of the city get more benefit from the TTC. So maybe that is the trade off....they get less congested streets (I know they are still congested but they are less so because of the TTC), the TTC is also one of the city advantages which makes property more valuable in the city.
It is impossible to weigh in totally what the right formulae is but I doubt that the right thing to do is to discourage the 905ers from using the transit and force them onto the streets in their cars.....besides, as someone else pointed out, it is impossible to do (unless you removed the transferibility of the metropass). Even if you did do that, I think it is safe to say that any 905er that uses the TTC enough to buy a metropass probably has a business address that they would use with the ttc so......
kEiThZ
Superstar
Given that Toronto ratepayers subsidize the TTC heavily through their own taxes, why should they not pay less for the pass?
The point about arbitrage is a good one. There is a solution, toll the roads into the 416. This keeps the incentive to take transit the same, but increases the price point for travel into the 416. The impact of that is a different debate.
The point about arbitrage is a good one. There is a solution, toll the roads into the 416. This keeps the incentive to take transit the same, but increases the price point for travel into the 416. The impact of that is a different debate.
afransen
Senior Member
At a higher level, in a blue skies-type scenario, the cost of the TTC should be spread across the GTA tax-base.
doady
Senior Member
The TTC doesn't have to subsidize 905ers. Just ban 905ers from the TTC. Problem solved.
"If you can provide a photo ID that proves that you are a resident of the City of Toronto, then you are welcome to use our system. If not, then fuck off."
doady
Senior Member
Of course, at the same time, the 905ers could decide that don't want to subsidize the TTC anymore and the provincial government cancels the hundreds of millions of dollars it grants to the TTC each year.
drum118
Superstar
Guess what>>>>>>>>>>>How does $5 fare sound if 416 is to pay and ride the system 100%.
905 support a lot of routes that are poorly used by 416 in the first place.
Outer core within 416 support routes that are poor use by inter core 416.
Your nose is been cut off with this remark.
At the same time, visitors would stop visiting TO and take their money elsewhere leaving the 416 with higher tax bills and less TTC service.
doady
Senior Member
I live in the 905 so I wasn't being serious of course.
Of course, you are right, Drum118. Riders support the system. That is a key point here that everyone ignores. Taxes aren't the only thing that support the system, the fares that riders pay also support the system. An increase of riders aren't a drain to any system. That is why the whole idea of charging higher fares to 905ers is ridiculous.
That's why I suggested that, if more riders makes transit inefficient, and 905 riders have disproportionate effect, then perhaps transit should simply not allow them to use the system. Perhaps the goal of every transit system should be to decrease ridership as much possible since it saves money and increases efficiency.
If highest ridership routes like Finch and Don Mills are biggest drain on the TTC, just simply cancel them. Likewise, Mississauga should just cancel the Hurontario bus. Too many riders. Too many Brampton riders. And both MT and YRT should stop allowing Toronto residents from transferring onto their buses. All in the name of increasing efficiency.
But in my opinion, this is a very right-wing sort of thinking, completely ignoring the social and financial benefits of getting people out of their cars, reducing the burden on the road system and on the environment. If Toronto does not want to spend money on getting people onto transit, that means it is willing to spend money on road widening instead? It does not mind more pollution?
Of course, you are right, Drum118. Riders support the system. That is a key point here that everyone ignores. Taxes aren't the only thing that support the system, the fares that riders pay also support the system. An increase of riders aren't a drain to any system. That is why the whole idea of charging higher fares to 905ers is ridiculous.
That's why I suggested that, if more riders makes transit inefficient, and 905 riders have disproportionate effect, then perhaps transit should simply not allow them to use the system. Perhaps the goal of every transit system should be to decrease ridership as much possible since it saves money and increases efficiency.
If highest ridership routes like Finch and Don Mills are biggest drain on the TTC, just simply cancel them. Likewise, Mississauga should just cancel the Hurontario bus. Too many riders. Too many Brampton riders. And both MT and YRT should stop allowing Toronto residents from transferring onto their buses. All in the name of increasing efficiency.
But in my opinion, this is a very right-wing sort of thinking, completely ignoring the social and financial benefits of getting people out of their cars, reducing the burden on the road system and on the environment. If Toronto does not want to spend money on getting people onto transit, that means it is willing to spend money on road widening instead? It does not mind more pollution?