[cdr108]

from http://urbantoronto.ca/database/proj...square-gardens

Unit size: 335 ft² to 747 ft²
Price: from $199,900


seriously, $600+ psf from crack, prostitute, methadone clinics and homeless shelters heaven ?!?

website is up, claims that condos are starting at $199,000. Damn cheap. Square Footage prices have certainly declined over the last few years.

 

[urbandreamer]

Toss in appalling cheap architecture and you're looking at a real value of under $400 psf.

 

[pmilo]

Here are the first suite layouts folks. VIP phase started today. Corner 1 Bed (510 sq ft) probably the best unit and likely best seller. Parking $45k, locker at $5 K , maintenance at $0.54 and approx $600/sq ft average

 

[cdr108]

thank you again for posting, pmilo.

wow those are pretty horrible !
considering the location and that Gupta/Easton has had the property for awhile, their cost base is substantially lower than anything on the market now:

* very narrow LR of 9'0" - 9'3"
* small 9'0" x 9'0" bedrooms
* trying to squeeze 2 bedrooms into 539 sq ft
* 3 bedroom/1 baths in 750 sq ft


the only saving grace - no pillars in the middle of the units.

 

[VoicesCarry]

This will be a student ghetto. 3 bedrooms in 750 square feet? Sheesh.

 

[William]

Anyone had any insider news how this project is selling?

 

[Southcore]

Doing fairly well so far - not as well as Core did but they'll hit 70% and proceed with this thing in a timely manner.

 

[neuhaus]

Having a very deceptive name and renderings also helped as well, as purchasers has been offshore investors thinking that they bought close to the Yonge Street subway line and Dundas Square.

The 2-bedroom unit they were advertising for $299,900 is actually 539 sq.ft. The second bedroom is extremely tiny and oddly shaped -- you could only fit a single bed in there, it's more of a den than anything else.

 

[pmilo]

Thought this was interesting. An agent sent out an email today backtracking on this project being of great value. I've copied the majority of the email here. Apparently its misleading regarding the maintenance fee's and whats included.

The marketing materials say that maintenance fees are $0.54 per square foot, and that hydro is separately metered.

What I, and every other Realtor in the city, interpreted this to mean was that this building would be like 90% of the buildings built in Toronto today: they would run on a fan coil system where the heat and air conditioning are generated centrally in the building and you only pay for the energy to run a fan in your fan coil unit to push the hot or cold air into your unit.

In buildings like this (fan coil buildings), the resident pays only for the hydro for anything that is plugged into the wall. Usually that translates into about $50/month. No big deal.

However, in the case of Dundas Square Gardens, it turns out that everything is going to be separately metered. So that means that the heat and air conditioning are created inside the unit itself (most likely via a heat-pump system). The owner or tenant of the suite must pay the cost to generate the hot and cold air - just like if you owned a house. Anyone who has owned a house before knows that this is the most expensive "bill" you have to pay each month.

On top of this, the water will be separately metered for each unit (usually included in the maintenance fees for 95% of buildings today).

So at Dundas Square Gardens what that means is maintenance fees are going to be 54 cents per square foot + gas + hydro + water.

EXAMPLE:

If you have let's say a 600 sq ft unit with a parking spot and a locker then you could realistically be looking at monthly fees of this:
$324 base maintenance fee ($0.54)
$100 utilities (water, gas, hydro)
$70 parking maintenance fee
$25 locker maintenance fee
$30 guest suite fee (after 1st year)
= $549/month or $0.92 per square foot "real maintenance cost"

Compare this with Pace condos which will be located right across the street. A 600 square foot unit in this building with parking and locker will look like this:
$282 base maintenance fee ($0.47)
$50 utilities (hydro only)
$50 parking maintenance fee
$12 locker maintenance fee
$0 guest suite fee
= $394/month or $0.66 per square foot "real maintenance cost"

 

[cdr108]

thanks pmilo ... more deception by Easton and their marketing department unless one happened to go through the fine print.

it's possible many buyer's lawyers could miss that thinking, as the agent above noted, what would be common place in 90% of the buildings built in TO.

interesting to note that the parking and locker maintenance fees are also higher at DSG than Pace.

 

[TorontoMike$$]

Never fails to amaze me how developers will stoop to such low levels to deceive potential buyers. Lesson to everyone.. always buy from a builder with a strong reputation not these fly by night ops.

 

[pmilo]

I forgot to add this regarding guest suites:

The second thing that I discovered about this building that was not apparent in any of the marketing materials is this: after the first year of the building when the condo is handed over from the developer to the condominium corporation, there will be an additional charge of $30/month for every single suite in the building.


The money will go to one of the developer's companies to pay for the mortgage on the guest suites in the building. This is highly unusual and again, adds to the monthly cost of owning a suite in this building.

 

[interchange42]

$1000 from every condo sale will be going to support education at nearby Ryerson University. Steve Gupta will be topping that gift up to $1 Million. Check out the front page story here.

 

[metroTO]

I forgot to add this regarding guest suites:
The second thing that I discovered about this building that was not apparent in any of the marketing materials is this: after the first year of the building when the condo is handed over from the developer to the condominium corporation, there will be an additional charge of $30/month for every single suite in the building.

The money will go to one of the developer's companies to pay for the mortgage on the guest suites in the building. This is highly unusual and again, adds to the monthly cost of owning a suite in this building.

How many guest suites are in this building?
And for how long does each owner have to pony up this monthly charge?
There's almost 1000 units in this building, possibly more if the developer seeks more floors. These guest suites are typically small studio units akin to hotel rooms and often placed in the most undesirable part of the building. Given that the cheapest unit is priced at $199,000 I am guessing these guest suites are worth no more than $199,000 at the very most -- To be realistic I will take 10% off to be fair. That means that each guest suite would be worth $180,000 each.

I'm no mortgage numbers expert, so if 1000 units are paying $30 a month towards the mortgage of these guest suites that means that each year the building is able to pay $360,000 towards these guest suites a year which means four guest suites could be paid off in two years.

Their maintenance fees are average compared to other condos, but considerably higher if you factor in that each unit is individually metered. This is a significant factor for investors, which unfortunately many are not aware of. In addition there are the hefty extra maintenance fees for the storage lockers and parking.
It's a good thing my knowledgeable real estate agent warned me about this. The price per square feet is too high for the neighbourhood and I could find a much better building in a desirable area for a much better price and bigger size.
I feel sorry for the offshore investors who bought here... actually I don't!

 

[TheKingEast]

Those floor plans are cringe-worthy. Who's going to be the first developer to build a project full of bachelor suites? We seem to be headed that way. Since we're going the way of college dorms. I'm hoping the building code actually looks to update some of their dated building codes. I can only imagine how well the noise travels between suites.