What do you think of this project?

  • Total voters
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cliffapotamus said:
This image makes me think of one of the critiques of this project that came up this week.
real question: what kind of solid info do we have on the burial ground in the area; ie where exactly it was, does it extend under the extant power plant (i remember reading it went under the 60's addition that's gone now, but did it go under the part thats still here?) and if it does, is there anything left, under the foundations of the existing plant? I mean, the burial ground is an important part of Edmonton's history, but if it won't even be under the station, why is the station location so contentious? It just seems like a debate some archeology could resolve pretty easily.
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Human remains have been discovered numerous times over the years; most recently in 2016. You can learn more here.
 
I am so excited about this Gondola - but I feel like every time I see it posted elsewhere online (eg: Reddit) all I see are people aggressively against it.
Is there a sense for what the general public opinion on the project is? I'm a bit worried a loud negative voice may see the project halted before they can get shovels in the ground, especially after the city elections later this year.
 
On the question on ridership, I thought that PSG was also negotiating with ETS to integrate the gondola into the transit system. Maybe I am imagining this, but I thought they were pitching a supplemental fees ($5?) that riders could add on their monthly pass to give them access to the gondola as part of the new smart fare system. This would provide a base level of riders to the system and give ETS a cut of the revenues without investing any capital for the infrastructure.

I think this seems like a really innovative aspect of the proposal and could help with sustainability in the short term since it is unlikely any real development will be finished at the Power Plant before the gondola system finishes construction.
 
tkoe_ said:
On the question on ridership, I thought that PSG was also negotiating with ETS to integrate the gondola into the transit system. Maybe I am imagining this, but I thought they were pitching a supplemental fees ($5?) that riders could add on their monthly pass to give them access to the gondola as part of the new smart fare system. This would provide a base level of riders to the system and give ETS a cut of the revenues without investing any capital for the infrastructure.

I think this seems like a really innovative aspect of the proposal and could help with sustainability in the short term since it is unlikely any real development will be finished at the Power Plant before the gondola system finishes construction.
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That's interesting! I hadn't heard about a specific proposal for how to integrate with the bus pass.
But you're definitely right, the true strength in this will be commuters. They're the ones who will sustain it.

I do hope an individual one-time fare doesn't have to be too expensive either, especially if I already have an active fare transfer.
 
JuliallThat said:
I do hope an individual one-time fare doesn't have to be too expensive either, especially if I already have an active fare transfer.
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I read recently that one gondola project not doing as great was in London, UK (but most seem to do well).
I think it's a 1 km trip over River Thames and a one-off trip is now 5 pounds (about $10?).
But options include multiple passes for less. Overall it was reported that fares may be cost prohibitive. I think ridership was 1.3M in 2018. It opened in 2012.
 
TAS said:
I read recently that one gondola project not doing as great was in London, UK (but most seem to do well).
I think it's a 1 km trip over River Thames and a one-off trip is now 5 pounds (about $10?).
But options include multiple passes for less. Overall it was reported that fares may be cost prohibitive. I think ridership was 1.3M in 2018. It opened in 2012.
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I've been to the London one, couple of years after it opened. As nice and fun as it is, London has many bridge crossings (both pedestrian/bike and car), a rail transit system that is larger than all of Canada's together. Also, the costs for anyone who isn't on the "frequent flyer" is ridiculous, at £4.50 and the lone doesn't integrate well with current transit. Ended up being more of a tourist novelty than anything, in a city full of many more tourist attractions that are far more interesting than a gondola, which reduced ridership even among this group of people. Not to mention that the crossing in question happens to be close to bridges and subway stations, rendering it fairly useless, as the other crossing methods are far cheaper and just as efficient, if a little slower.

That's a completely different case from Edmonton. On a good Sunday evening, going from Whyte Ave to any point on Jasper Ave, by car, takes 10 minutes, off peak. Add on the regular weekday traffic and you can easily take 20+ minutes, as some of us mentioned already. By bus, you can increase time by at least another 10 minutes to that, on average, and that's being lucky.
If you wanna take the LRT, it will be what? At least 20 minutes to get to Corona Station, via Bus + Capital/Metro Lines, if you happen to time it well. No less than that in the future Valley Line through Bonnie Doon.
If the Gondola is, in fact, integrated to ETS as part of the deal, I can easily see it as a commuting line, giving it enough juice to survive until the Rossdale area is developed into a major asset (not just for tourists, but for Edmontonians as well), which should give it the final boost to be sustainable in the long term.
My guts (and 5 years of project financing experience) tell me that their expectations for the profitability and sustainability of the project require the development of an ecosystem around it that ensures year-round stable ridership, which includes the eventual redevelopment of the Power Plant and a better use of the stretch of the River Valley from the Tawatinâ to Groat.
Just my 2 cents, but who am I to say if that's right, hahaha
 
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i can also see bike commuters being a large part of that ecosystem, particularly if a monthly pass was competitive - maybe it could even be a special rate contingent on being “with” your bike. my guess is there is lots of additional potential commuting in both directions if you could eliminate the climb back to the top of the bank, particularly in the winter.
 
kcantor said:
^

i can also see bike commuters being a large part of that ecosystem, particularly if a monthly pass was competitive - maybe it could even be a special rate contingent on being “with” your bike. my guess is there is lots of additional potential commuting in both directions if you could eliminate the climb back to the top of the bank, particularly in the winter.
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As someone who lives in the Strathcona area I have long wondered about the limited number of options to travel directly to downtown. Is this a commuter/tourist market they have overlooked or is it not just a large enough market?

If the answer is the former, it would probably cost much less to increase ETS service and/or expand the High Level Street car, which I think is an under utilized tourist attraction. If the answer is the later, then it probably means the gondola is not sustainable either.
 
David A said:
As someone who lives in the Strathcona area I have long wondered about the limited number of options to travel directly to downtown. Is this a commuter/tourist market they have overlooked or is it not just a large enough market?

If the answer is the former, it would probably cost much less to increase ETS service and/or expand the High Level Street car, which I think is an under utilized tourist attraction. If the answer is the later, then it probably means the gondola is not sustainable either.
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The whole point with ETS increasing service would be that it doesn't solve the problem. The issue is not bus frequency or number of lines/destinations but the speed in which the current service operates. It doesn't take less than 20 minutes to get from Whyte to essentially anywhere in the Downtown core, except maybe for the very west side of it, and that is if you're lucky to avoid traffic and/or manage to time your transfers perfectly.

The High Level Streetcar doesn't have nearly enough volunteers to handle having their infrastructure used as a commuter service operating year-round. It would be awesome if we could have it, but it would, also, be more complimentary to the Gondola than concurrent, considering that the downtown terminus of the line is west of 109 street.

If well planned and integrated into the transit system, in a partnership with ETS that gives a decent fare for commuters, the Gondola can play a very interesting part in being, more than a touristic novelty, a "people mover" linking the two busiest and denser parts of town and help "merge" our two "downtowns" very dynamically. It can also provide quick and comfortable access to the River Valley and its trails for people with disabilities, bikers, etc.

As I mentioned, an ecosystem that nurtures the use of this transportation modal is needed for long term success and it passes, surely, through the redevelopment of the Rossdale Power Plant and the surrounding area, even though it doesn't mean that this is needed right away for the project to be successful. In reality, our of that need, my intuition tells me that they will look for ways to partner up with other companies and the city to help foster development in the area. Nevertheless, I still believe this project can be a good asset both in the transit and tourism fronts (one doesn't need to void the other), now, everything that we need is to get rid of the kinds of Mike Nickel and the rest of NIMBY crowd in the council and we're all set for success.
 
As someone who has taken some of the bus routes between this area and downtown, I would say speed actually is part of the issue. Most of the routes to downtown either go east on Whyte Ave with a number of stops or west on Whyte, then transfer to LRT at the University. There is infrequent direct service with limited hours. Commuters from this area can be travelling for 40 minutes by bus vs. 10 to 15 by auto.

I would say congratulations to the Gondola project proponents for identifying a problem - commuting time between Whyte Ave and Downtown and therefore a potential market, but I think a solution may be in making some adjustments to transit service.
 
There's a survey out currently for the gondola if you want to participate! https://www.prairieskygondola.com/

I was disappointed that transit and car use were the only assumed options in some questions. I think biking, especially when connecting to the river valley should be seen as a more prominent connection. Currently getting from the north side to whyte in the valley is brutal.

I was excited to see an idea for a $50 annual pass for unlimited rides. $8 round trip is the other price mentioned. The 50 dollar one i think is very affordable and would increase people's use and get them to whyte and downtown more. I'm assuming, unlike buses, there's almost no per rider costs to a gondola? The same amount of gondola cars are rotating on the cable no matter if its full or empty? Seems like a smart strategy.
 
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