What do you think of this project?

  • Total voters
    53
I don't agree there is still social disorder downtown here and it is a problem. Although it is not as bad as a few years ago, there is still a lot of room for improvement.

However, that does not explain why over almost the last decade nothing happened here, while projects moved ahead elsewhere downtown, some of them not that far away.
 
^
I would argue that over the last decade much has happened "here"..

Within walking distance we have a renovated main library (despite what it looks like now but that's a different discussion; a new LRT line (and the start of another), the "almost ready to open" Winspear expansion; the completion of the Brighton Block and Pendennis Building renovations; the warehouse park; several sections of Jasper Avenue New Vision (despite what you might think of them); Kinistewah Park; O'daymin Park; Michael Phair and Beaverhills House Park; Kinisinaw Park; the opening of the Stantec Building; the opening of the JW Marriott; the completion of Sky, Legends], the Switch and numerous other residential projects, both strata and rental; the renovation of the Legislative Grounds (regardless of what you think of what was done)...

I'm pretty sure this isn't a comprehensive list as it's just off the top of my head.

What hasn't happened is better maintenance of our public realm, better security for our public realm, and extensive daily programming of our public realm other than during special events (which can detract as many as it attracts as the special events crowds are not the same as regular daily users).
 
kcantor said:
^
I would argue that over the last decade much has happened "here"..

Within walking distance we have a renovated main library (despite what it looks like now but that's a different discussion; a new LRT line (and the start of another), the "almost ready to open" Winspear expansion; the completion of the Brighton Block and Pendennis Building renovations; the warehouse park; several sections of Jasper Avenue New Vision (despite what you might think of them); Kinistewah Park; O'daymin Park; Michael Phair and Beaverhills House Park; Kinisinaw Park; the opening of the Stantec Building; the opening of the JW Marriott; the completion of Sky, Legends], the Switch and numerous other residential projects, both strata and rental; the renovation of the Legislative Grounds (regardless of what you think of what was done)...

I'm pretty sure this isn't a comprehensive list as it's just off the top of my head.

What hasn't happened is better maintenance of our public realm, better security for our public realm, and extensive daily programming of our public realm other than during special events (which can detract as many as it attracts as the special events crowds are not the same as regular daily users).
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You should run for Mayor or Premier and fix the public service. ;)
 
kcantor said:
^
I would argue that over the last decade much has happened "here"..

Within walking distance we have a renovated main library (despite what it looks like now but that's a different discussion; a new LRT line (and the start of another), the "almost ready to open" Winspear expansion; the completion of the Brighton Block and Pendennis Building renovations; the warehouse park; several sections of Jasper Avenue New Vision (despite what you might think of them); Kinistewah Park; O'daymin Park; Michael Phair and Beaverhills House Park; Kinisinaw Park; the opening of the Stantec Building; the opening of the JW Marriott; the completion of Sky, Legends], the Switch and numerous other residential projects, both strata and rental; the renovation of the Legislative Grounds (regardless of what you think of what was done)...

I'm pretty sure this isn't a comprehensive list as it's just off the top of my head.

What hasn't happened is better maintenance of our public realm, better security for our public realm, and extensive daily programming of our public realm other than during special events (which can detract as many as it attracts as the special events crowds are not the same as regular daily users).
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The here I meant was this particular site, not elsewhere downtown. However, oddly all the nearby activity doesn't seem to have helped draw many more people downtown, at least so far.

Actually, I feel all the construction happening in the area may have been one of the reasons some people stayed away. Although, It will be interesting to see now that this burst of construction is mostly over if more people come downtown or come back.

I would particularly agree with your last point, politicians and governments seem to like to build shiny new things, fix or maintain things not so much.
 
inclusion said:
Good enough for Toronto, but not for Edmonton! Instead, we had to go back to our historical roots of having a parking lot.
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Gosh, I went of Street View to see how the two buildings compared, and ended up going thru all the years they had (2007 thru 2025) for that intersection and it is DEPRESSING to see how more sterile and cold it became through the years. There was clearly so much more foot traffic there until 2016/17, with the peak being around 2014-15 on the photos.
 
ChazYEG said:
Gosh, I went of Street View to see how the two buildings compared, and ended up going thru all the years they had (2007 thru 2025) for that intersection and it is DEPRESSING to see how more sterile and cold it became through the years. There was clearly so much more foot traffic there until 2016/17, with the peak being around 2014-15 on the photos.
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It's almost hard to fathom today, but pre VLSE construction starting, 102 ave between 99-104 st was almost comparable with Jasper Ave in terms of pedestrian/vehicle traffic and retail offerings. 102 st and 102 ave especially used to be bustling.
 
ChazYEG said:
Gosh, I went of Street View to see how the two buildings compared, and ended up going thru all the years they had (2007 thru 2025) for that intersection and it is DEPRESSING to see how more sterile and cold it became through the years. There was clearly so much more foot traffic there until 2016/17, with the peak being around 2014-15 on the photos.
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Yes, around 2014-15 was probably the peak at least in the last decade. Not quite sure what started the flight to the suburbs after that, safety issues and more homeless people did not seem to happen until around or after COVID.
 
David A said:
Yes, around 2014-15 was probably the peak at least in the last decade. Not quite sure what started the flight to the suburbs after that, safety issues and more homeless people did not seem to happen until around or after COVID.
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I'm not sure it was flight to the suburbs, safety issues and more homeless people as much as it was the City closing 102 Avenue at the end of 2017 to start LRT construction,(something not much different to what the original LRT construction did to Jasper Avenue) and from which Jasper Avenue has still never recovered),

In both cases, both traffic and pedestrian movement was severely constrained and people coped by either developing new routes downtown or by simply no longer coming downtown. Once that happens, it's incredibly difficult to restore those previous volumes, particularly as many of the local retailers that were supported by and relied on that street activity didn't survive the transition.
 
kcantor said:
I'm not sure it was flight to the suburbs, safety issues and more homeless people as much as it was the City closing 102 Avenue at the end of 2017 to start LRT construction,(something not much different to what the original LRT construction did to Jasper Avenue) and from which Jasper Avenue has still never recovered),

In both cases, both traffic and pedestrian movement was severely constrained and people coped by either developing new routes downtown or by simply no longer coming downtown. Once that happens, it's incredibly difficult to restore those previous volumes, particularly as many of the local retailers that were supported by and relied on that street activity didn't survive the transition.
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Very good points. I was thinking of around 2015 when possibly the decline started. However I agree the LRT construction a few years later made things much worse and went on for many years.

Unfortunately our city doesn't support retailer disrupted by projects like this, which in this case dragged on even longer than planned, so likely many either closed or moved elsewhere perhaps never to return downtown again.
 
^
We also shouldn’t forget that for two years the City concurrently shut down one direction of Jasper Avenue for the summer construction season to repair the Convention Centre roof… and then there were the Jasper Avenue New Vision closures and block after block of sidewalk and lane closures for both public and private construction.
 
I just heard back from Anne Stevenson:

Thank you for reaching out about the old BMO site, and for your help in stopping the Arlington parking lot. I appreciate your frustration with the current state of the BMO site and your lack of enthusiasm for Westrich's proposed surface parking lot. While it's not a decision that's coming to Council, I'll confess that I feel I could live with what Westrich is proposing. You're absolutely right that there's a huge risk of us suffering from goodenough-ism but I'm also mindful of not letting the perfect be the enemy of the better-than-what's-there-now. The imperative for me is moving the site into new hands and helping make that viable for a proven developer is something I'm open to. Even with the allowance for parking revenue, it's still looking like an exceptionally hard site to make viable and I'm worried we'll be stuck with the status quo indefinitely without some concessions being made.

I know that's not ideal and I hope that you don't give up! Thanks to community voices like yours, we're seeing other progress with our unlicensed parking lot initiative, including lots being closed down and other lands changing hands - all the things we want to be seeing happen to build a stronger downtown.

Thanks again for reaching out and for all your great advocacy. If you wanted to chat further, don't hesitate to let me know and we could grab a coffee.

Not perfect, but a thoughtful response nevertheless. I was surprised about the offer of coffee!
 
ADob said:
I just heard back from Anne Stevenson:

Thank you for reaching out about the old BMO site, and for your help in stopping the Arlington parking lot. I appreciate your frustration with the current state of the BMO site and your lack of enthusiasm for Westrich's proposed surface parking lot. While it's not a decision that's coming to Council, I'll confess that I feel I could live with what Westrich is proposing. You're absolutely right that there's a huge risk of us suffering from goodenough-ism but I'm also mindful of not letting the perfect be the enemy of the better-than-what's-there-now. The imperative for me is moving the site into new hands and helping make that viable for a proven developer is something I'm open to. Even with the allowance for parking revenue, it's still looking like an exceptionally hard site to make viable and I'm worried we'll be stuck with the status quo indefinitely without some concessions being made.

I know that's not ideal and I hope that you don't give up! Thanks to community voices like yours, we're seeing other progress with our unlicensed parking lot initiative, including lots being closed down and other lands changing hands - all the things we want to be seeing happen to build a stronger downtown.

Thanks again for reaching out and for all your great advocacy. If you wanted to chat further, don't hesitate to let me know and we could grab a coffee.

Not perfect, but a thoughtful response nevertheless. I was surprised about the offer of coffee!
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I'm more surprised that Anne herself actually responded to you.
Every time I wrote to her, I get a response from one of her flunkies.
 
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