A
afransen TO
Guest
You could always just hire any decent accountant to tell you about tax loopholes... it's their business after all.
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R
roch5220
Guest
I've been a strong supporter of a flat tax.
Building Babel is right when he says that most rich don't pay taxes.
Most peoples marginal rates would probably go up. Right now in Ontario, on $100K of income, taxes, CPP & EI would amount to roughly just over 30%. My guess is that a flat tax would actually increase the tax paid on $100K. None the less, there are going to be poor people no matter what the tax rate is, that is going to be to high for them. Even still, I think that a marginal tax rate should be inplace. Progressive tax rates just hurt the middle class. All income should be taxed at the flax rate with no loopholes or basic personal credits. I feel that Canada is going in the wrong direction. In the past when tuitions were low (actually dirt cheap), I thought a progressive tax rate was correct as the state was subsidizing their higher learning, which statistically, higher rates on learning (ie university degrees) in general terms meant meant higher incomes. The move towards high tuitions, in my opinion, should mean lowering of higher bracket income tax rates as people are financing their own futures. You can't force people (don't get offended, I only mean this in general terms) to pay for their own advancement and then subsidize people through higher tax rates who don't do the same for themselves. And poor people have a easier time financing their education (leaving out other social issues) vs someone like me, who financed themselves 100% through lines of credit, and came out owing $35K, vs, what I calculated only $23K if I got OSAP.
Another thing, a flat tax still means that people pay more tax than poor people. Just at the same %. I get somewhat irritated that people argue that with a flat tax rate, rich people pay the same amounts of tax.
Building Babel is right when he says that most rich don't pay taxes.
Most peoples marginal rates would probably go up. Right now in Ontario, on $100K of income, taxes, CPP & EI would amount to roughly just over 30%. My guess is that a flat tax would actually increase the tax paid on $100K. None the less, there are going to be poor people no matter what the tax rate is, that is going to be to high for them. Even still, I think that a marginal tax rate should be inplace. Progressive tax rates just hurt the middle class. All income should be taxed at the flax rate with no loopholes or basic personal credits. I feel that Canada is going in the wrong direction. In the past when tuitions were low (actually dirt cheap), I thought a progressive tax rate was correct as the state was subsidizing their higher learning, which statistically, higher rates on learning (ie university degrees) in general terms meant meant higher incomes. The move towards high tuitions, in my opinion, should mean lowering of higher bracket income tax rates as people are financing their own futures. You can't force people (don't get offended, I only mean this in general terms) to pay for their own advancement and then subsidize people through higher tax rates who don't do the same for themselves. And poor people have a easier time financing their education (leaving out other social issues) vs someone like me, who financed themselves 100% through lines of credit, and came out owing $35K, vs, what I calculated only $23K if I got OSAP.
Another thing, a flat tax still means that people pay more tax than poor people. Just at the same %. I get somewhat irritated that people argue that with a flat tax rate, rich people pay the same amounts of tax.
S
sdoody
Guest
The flat tax has traditionally been promised as being good for everybody since it would be at the existing lowest marginal rate.
How could this possibly generate the same amount of tax revenue for the government if everybody suddenly pays the current lowest level of taxes? I can't believe that eliminating loopholes can account for the vast amount of money you'd lose from high-income earners who are suddenly getting a 15% tax break...
S
spmarshall
Guest
Many people in the right wing generally favour flat taxes because income taxes are progressive taxes, as it is a redistributive tax that takes into account income. That is why you won't likely see sales taxes decreased across the board, as the richer you are, the less of your income generally goes to consumptive taxes, like sales taxes.
The tax cuts many people in Canada's rightist parties and organizations are those that favour the wealthier part of society, like income tax cuts. During the Haris years, wealthier households saved thousands in taxes, while the low income families saved very little (and ended up paying for it in user fees and service cuts).
The tax cuts many people in Canada's rightist parties and organizations are those that favour the wealthier part of society, like income tax cuts. During the Haris years, wealthier households saved thousands in taxes, while the low income families saved very little (and ended up paying for it in user fees and service cuts).
M
marksimpson7843
Guest
Would it be better to have a fixed income tax rate with no duductables offered. How "progressive" is our current system when everyone's included to pay and those with money who supposedly have the higher percentage find many ways not to.? Would it be cheaper to run?
F
fiendishlibrarian
Guest
Just get rid of loopholes. How fair would it be for me to pay the same rate of tax on my salary as, say, Belinda Stronach does on hers. Oh wait, Daddy takes care of that icky tax stuff...
B
building babel
Guest
Her rich daddy is a tax exile and lives in Switzerland.
A
afransen TO
Guest
The only way a flat tax scheme would make sense is if it had a high exemption (ie, on the order of the first $25 000 to $35 000 in income). It is a rather regressive tax scheme though, and it would hit high income earners ($100-$200 000/yr) more than anyone else...
S
sdoody
Guest
I was under the impression that a flat tax would be somewhere between the lowest and highest current tax rates, and would therefore help out high-income earners and hurt the poor. From what you describe though, it sounds like you're proposing a flat tax that's higher than the current highest tax rate...is this correct?
A
Are Be
Guest
I posted something here... now it's gone. Must be a problem with the server.
A
afransen TO
Guest
Must be, eh Are Be?
Sdoody,
Flat taxes hurt the poor the most if there isn't a high exemption on the first $X of income. It hurts the middle and upper-middle class more than the poor if there is a high exemption.
Either way, flat taxes are designed to remove tax burdens from the very wealthiest.
Sdoody,
Flat taxes hurt the poor the most if there isn't a high exemption on the first $X of income. It hurts the middle and upper-middle class more than the poor if there is a high exemption.
Either way, flat taxes are designed to remove tax burdens from the very wealthiest.
B
building babel
Guest
The very wealthiest avoid tax no matter what the system is.
S
spmarshall
Guest
I agree that eliminating loopholes would be much more reasonable and fair than a flat tax (which is advocated by such organizations as the Frasier Institute), and would cost less to administer the tax system and make it easier. As well, make it harder to evade taxes. Of course, you'd never hear that coming from the Canadian (non)Taxpayers' Federation.
J
jamerinbow
Guest
You need more of your income to pay for the necessities of life when you're poor, and I think that the income tax system should reflect that. I believe that, in a year, you shouldn't have to pay any tax on personal income up to, say, $10,000. Then I believe the tax should be applied gradually:
5% on the portion of your income from $10,000 - $20,000
10% on the portion of your income from $20,000 - $30,000
15% on the portion of your income from $30,000 - $40,000
20% on the portion of your income from $40,000 - $50,000
30% on the portion of your income from $50,000 - $60,000
40% on the portion of your income from $60,000 - $75,000
45% on the portion of your income from above $75,000, or 40% of your total income, whichever is lower.
For the purpose of this example, I'm comparing total taxes paid, provincial, federal, municipal, etc. That strikes me as a fair system, and a fair rate of pay.
Currently, however, we have three tax brackets, and they apply to your total income. Thus, when you earn over $X, your taxes jump considerably, and they can be bumped there by such things as overtime payments, additional contract work, or whathaveyou. And I can think of few stronger disincentives to earn more income than such a clumsy system.
...James
5% on the portion of your income from $10,000 - $20,000
10% on the portion of your income from $20,000 - $30,000
15% on the portion of your income from $30,000 - $40,000
20% on the portion of your income from $40,000 - $50,000
30% on the portion of your income from $50,000 - $60,000
40% on the portion of your income from $60,000 - $75,000
45% on the portion of your income from above $75,000, or 40% of your total income, whichever is lower.
For the purpose of this example, I'm comparing total taxes paid, provincial, federal, municipal, etc. That strikes me as a fair system, and a fair rate of pay.
Currently, however, we have three tax brackets, and they apply to your total income. Thus, when you earn over $X, your taxes jump considerably, and they can be bumped there by such things as overtime payments, additional contract work, or whathaveyou. And I can think of few stronger disincentives to earn more income than such a clumsy system.
...James
S
sdoody
Guest
Thus, when you earn over $X, your taxes jump considerably, and they can be bumped there by such things as overtime payments, additional contract work, or whathaveyou.
No...taxes are calculated on the part of your income that is over the threshold. If you're making $50,000 and paying a certain tax rate, and you get a raise to $60,000 pushing you over the $50,000 limit into the next tax bracket, you only pay the higher tax rate on the extra $10,000 of income. You can never end up with less by earning more money.