[Johnny Au]

Here is a discussion split from The One (the building) thread.

We discuss floor numbering schemes.

Read here for a primer:

Storey - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Height relative to ground (storeys)	European/Australasian convention	US/Canadian convention	Russian/Soviet convention	Japanese/Korean/Mainland Chinese convention	Indian Convention
4 Levels above ground storey	4 ("4th floor")	5 ("5th floor")	5 ("5th floor")	5F or 6F	4th floor, IVth floor
3 Levels above ground storey	3 ("3rd floor")	4 ("4th floor")	4 ("4th floor")	3.5F/4F or 5F	3rd floor, IIIrd floor
2 Levels above ground storey	2 ("2nd floor")	3 ("3rd floor")	3 ("3rd floor")	3F or 3.5F/4F	2nd floor, IInd floor
1 Level above ground storey	1 ("1st floor")	2 ("2nd floor")	2 ("2nd floor")	2F or 3F	1st floor, Ist floor
Ground level storey	0, G ("Ground floor")	1, L, G, RC ("1st floor", "Lobby", "Ground floor"; or “Rez-de-chausée” in Quebec)	1 ("1st floor")	1F or 2F	Ground floor
Partially below ground storey	LG ("Lower Ground")	LL ("Lower Lobby" or "Lower Level")	0 ("Semi-Basement")	0F/GF or 1F
1 Level completely below ground storey	−1, B1 ("1st Basement")	−1, B1 ("Basement 1" or "Basement")	−1, B1 ("1st Basement")	-1F/B1F
2 Levels completely below ground storey	−2, B2 ("2nd Basement")	−2, B2 ("Basement 2", or "Sub-basement")	−2, B2 ("2nd Basement")	-2F/B2F
3 Levels completely below ground storey	−3, B3 ("3rd Basement")	−3, B3 ("Basement 3", or "Sub-sub-basement")	−3, B3 ("3rd Basement")	-3F/B3F

Note that the numbering schemes can be reversed when it comes to structures that are primarily underground such as subway stations:

Please vote in the above poll and state your rationale. You can also state your like or dislike of including floor numbers considered "inauspicious" if you like (such as any appearance of the numeral "4" in East Asia and the number "13" in the West).

I voted North American because of familiarity for me. I do not mind the inclusion or exclusion of floor numbers considered "inauspicious."

 

[W. K. Lis]

Some countries have superstitions, which mean the "scary" number is skipped.

Used to be that the number "13" was avoided in North America. Today, it includes the number "4", and sometimes any number that has it ("14", "24", etc.).

Gets ridiculous sometimes if they skip ALL the superstitious numbers. "4", "13", "14", etc.

Toronto should do what Vancouver does. From link.

No more skipping 4, 13, 14, 24 in Vancouver floor numbers

Vancouver has long accommodated the superstitious by allowing certain floor numbers, suite numbers and addresses to be hidden or not used at all.

Across the city, many buildings with more than 12 floors are missing the number 13, jumping right to 14. It stems from a time when people also believed it was bad luck to step on a crack or walk under a ladder.

More recently, Vancouver has increasingly found itself approving developments with many more missing floors, including 14. From the 4th to the 54th, any floor containing a 4 has vanished in an effort to cater to superstitious Chinese.

Condo towers marketed to Asian buyers often don’t even have suite numbers containing 4. Developers and real estate agents know it’s harder to sell suites on floors containing a 4 because the spoken word for the number sounds strikingly similar to the spoken word for “death” in Mandarin and Cantonese.

It can make for some odd situations, such as the 53-floor Burrard Place condo tower under construction at Hornby and Drake Streets being marketed as having a 60th floor. That’s because the developer not only knocked out all the floors with a 4, but took out 13 for good measure.

Now the city, increasingly worried about the potential for confusion among first responders, and the consequences of emergency providers misjudging floors, has called a halt.

Not only are 4’s back where they should be, but so is 13.

“We’re back to basic math at the city,” Pat Ryan, the chief building officer said Tuesday. “It was very hard to justify why we were doing this if something were to go wrong.”

Ryan and two others, assistant fire chief Rick Cheung and building policy engineer Kevin Lau, said skipping floor and suite numbers could easily lead to confusion in an emergency, especially if a firefighter was navigating in thick smoke.

They recently issued a bulletin to developers saying the practice of eliminating numbers for reasons of superstition had to stop. It isn’t about culture or ethnic beliefs, it’s about safety considerations, Ryan said.

“The problem here is everyone has grown up with numbers that go in sequence. Under stress, emergency responders have a chance of making mistakes. Under pressure, you will simply count, because that is what you have grown up your entire life. The moment you start second-guessing yourself and start asking is that the fourth, fifth or sixth floors, it gets very confusing.”

Ryan said the new rule isn’t retroactive and will apply only to new applications, including applications to renumber house addresses.

He said the city consulted with developers and trade associations and most were supportive.

“There was concern from a marketing perspective, but it was hard to know exactly where that perspective was coming from,” he said.

Vancouver certainly isn’t the only city that has catered to triskaidekaphobians and tetraphobians (those afraid of the numbers 13 and 4). A few years ago, Richmond Hill, Ont., declared it would not use 4 in house numbering any more. And when the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission in 2011 proposed adding 474 as a new area code for Saskatchewan, SaskTel, the telephone service, gently said no thanks and persuaded the CRTC to give it the area code 639.

Some cities, such as North Vancouver and Surrey, have long resisted pleas to make 4 disappear.

Bob Rennie, one of Vancouver’s best-known condo marketers, said he doesn’t really think the change will make much difference.

“People who are superstitious and don’t like 4 aren’t going to buy on those floors,” he said.

Rennie, who said he’s “very superstitious” doesn’t like the number 4 either.

“Every car I have has at least a 5 and a 4 in the licence plate,” he said. “Five means ‘no’ and 4 means ‘death’ or ‘die.’ Some people like 8 because it means prosperity. I’d rather have “no die” in any car I drive. ”

Toronto should do the same as Vancouver with its buildings.

From link.

 

[Deadpool X]

At least here's not Shanghai:

Floors 0 (it uses Chinese reckoning for floor numbering, which is very similar to North American reckoning for floor numbering), 4, 13, and 14 are omitted (4 is a very inauspicious number in East Asian cultures due to the number 4 being homophonic to the word for "death" in various East Asian languages). Otherwise, you would like the Chinese reckoning for floor numbering (if inauspicious floor numbers weren't omitted).

Don't forget that Toronto has many Chinese investors who find the number 4 inauspicious.

Skipping floors ending at 4 seems to be a common practice in Toronto these days.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Skipping floors ending at 4 seems to be a common practice in Toronto these days.

4 (四 sì)

The Chinese word si - 死 - sĭ (to die in Chinese)

Therefore, use the English "four" or the French "quatre" instead.

 

[JasonParis]

I prefer 0 for ground. The +1 and -1 are very intuitive and clean without much room for confusion. I also think Toronto should ban floor-skipping on all future projects. Actually, it should be ON code too.

 

[Johnny Au]

4 (四 sì)

The Chinese word si - 死 - sĭ (to die in Chinese)

Therefore, use the English "four" or the French "quatre" instead.

Or Latin using Roman numerals (IV in this case, pronounced "quattuor").

It would be interesting to see elevator buttons use Roman numerals (though it can get confusing to first responders not familiar with Roman numerals).

 

[lenaitch]

I would think if they wanted to be totally inclusive - remembering that something that doesn't speak to me must offend me - all numbers would be found offensive to somebody. They are 'Arabic' after all.

 

[UntitledCyclist]

Does anyone know if in newer residential builds over 39 storeys, say the One Bloor tower for example, there are no storeys in the 40s? Or does having the 4 in the tens column make it less problematic?