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noctis

noctis

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I don't know if this topic has been posted before, if so please remove it mods, thanks!

I am currently in Taiwan and their metro system is just amazing (I mentioned this in my other post too). I mean, it is easy to use, simple, and most importantly, it's CLEAN!

If anyone ever get a chance to come to TW and take the MRT, you will notice how clean the trains and buses are and that's because they do not allow food or drinks (water is fine) on the system. If anyone is caught eating or drinking, a fee would be charged (in TW I think it's $5000 NT or roughly $170 CAD). Since the new trains have the CCTV (Closed-Circuit TV) system, it's easy to monitor things such as this.

I don't think it would be a difficult task for the TTC to implement a program like this. Just need someone to speak up and make sure that the voice is heard. Cleanliness is important, just like personal hygiene.

Speaking of cleanliness, I haven't even talk about the washrooms in the TTC...don't even get me started on that...I mean did anyone ever use them? I certainly don't...
 
noctis said:
I don't think it would be a difficult task for the TTC to implement a program like this. Just need someone to speak up and make sure that the voice is heard.
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Just because you think it would be easy doesn't mean it would be. Do you expect TTC bus drivers to pull over and write up a ticket for people eatting onboard? Do you think a CCTV video of someone drinking coffee on a streetcar will lead to procecution? Or should they have a seperate TTC By-Law Enforcement on each vehicle to watch out for the evil cookie-eaters?

Taipei's MRT began operations in 1996. It's not so hard to keep things clean for the first 15 years, espically when not tied down to maintaining legacy networks or personnel. Over the past 20 years or more, TTC funding has forced the choice between cleaning stations regularly and ensuring trains and tracks are properly maintained.

As for someone speaking up, David Gunn had a full-page interview that covered the topic in brief.

David Gunn said:
“Not that things were pristine in my day, but the system looks dirty. The platforms used to get cleaned, but I was getting on at St. Clair every day for a week and there was this same mud swirl the whole time I was in Toronto. The trains aren’t getting washed either. They look shabby. It’s kinda depressing.”
Click to expand...

My biggest question about this would be what you suggest the City/TTC do about all the food/drink vendors that rent space in TTC stations?
 
The suburban transit systems have, over the last decade, relaxed their no food/drink policy. The Mississauga policy now states "light snacks permitted" - covering non-alcoholic beverages (in proper containers) and simple, hand-held foods. Brampton also used to officially ban food and drinks, but with a Tim Horton's opening by the old Bramalea terminal in the late 1990s, that policy was relaxed.

This at least gives discretion against messy, stinky foods and reduces litter and spillage. But it's hard to put the genie back into the bottle on the TTC; only POP enforcement or vigilant security (see: the strictly no-food Washington Metro) can effectively also enforce any behavioural rules in North America.

All food vendors in the TTC sell inoffensive products; except perhaps soups at Tim Horton's or messy fruit at the Kitchen Table.
 
Mapleson said:
Just because you think it would be easy doesn't mean it would be. Do you expect TTC bus drivers to pull over and write up a ticket for people eatting onboard? Do you think a CCTV video of someone drinking coffee on a streetcar will lead to procecution? Or should they have a seperate TTC By-Law Enforcement on each vehicle to watch out for the evil cookie-eaters?

Taipei's MRT began operations in 1996. It's not so hard to keep things clean for the first 15 years, espically when not tied down to maintaining legacy networks or personnel. Over the past 20 years or more, TTC funding has forced the choice between cleaning stations regularly and ensuring trains and tracks are properly maintained.

As for someone speaking up, David Gunn had a full-page interview that covered the topic in brief.



My biggest question about this would be what you suggest the City/TTC do about all the food/drink vendors that rent space in TTC stations?
Click to expand...

I think it all comes down to common sense and respect. If you guys want to eat and drink and do whatever on the TTC, then go right ahead but learn to keep it clean. We are all mature people and I don't think we need to be reminded about putting the garbage in the right place.

You can still purchase food from Tim's or whatever food vendors inside the station, but I am sure you can wait until you get off the train to eat and drink...

I don't expect this whole thing to happen right away of course, it's up to the people themselves. If you want a cleaner and better transit system, it all starts with the citizens.
 
People should be allowed to eat or drink whatever they want whenever they want. It makes for a much nicer place to live. Fine people for littering, that's all.

In European countries or Argentina/Chile, for example, it is not uncommon to see people bringing a bottle of wine and enjoying it at a park. Beautiful harmless experience. Crime and murder rates in countries that allow these things are not higher.
 
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Just a reminder to all you youngins........ (I'm only in my 30's, LOL)

But the TTC use to have a rule against eating on the subway.

They got sued over it, can't remember whether it was the Human Rights Commission or the Courts...........but they lost and agreed to allow food unrestricted.

This decision is basically done................

As to leaving a mess..............there are already rules/laws again littering...
 
I find newspapers to be a bigger source of litter, especially with the pages strewn on the floor of a subway car. Enforcement of the TTC's bylaws can be effective. Plainclothes officers randomly coming onto vehicles and writing out tickets for littering or loud music would send a message to everyone quickly.
 
There seems to be no place to put a waste container on a subway car, streetcar, light rail vehicle, or bus. Would be nice if the vehicle designers could build in a space for a container on vehicles. The driver has a small one, but the traveling public doesn't.

I always carry my leftovers off the vehicle and look for a waste container at my stop or station.
 
noctis said:
I think it all comes down to common sense and respect. If you guys want to eat and drink and do whatever on the TTC, then go right ahead but learn to keep it clean. We are all mature people and I don't think we need to be reminded about putting the garbage in the right place.

You can still purchase food from Tim's or whatever food vendors inside the station, but I am sure you can wait until you get off the train to eat and drink...

I don't expect this whole thing to happen right away of course, it's up to the people themselves. If you want a cleaner and better transit system, it all starts with the citizens.
Click to expand...
I used to work at Pearson Airport for a co-op term and would commute back to Waterloo on weekends by public transit. That involved taking the 192 to Kipling, the subway from Kipling to Yonge and down to Dundas, then greyhound from the Dundas Terminal into Kitchener Terminal, and then two GRT buses to get home. The total travel time inside public transit was over 3.5 hours after a full day's work, so it's not always so simple to "wait until you get off the train". A cleaner transit system only requires people to clean up after themselves and others around them. Most people are too busy or germophobic to touch something on the ground. I eat on planes, trains, and boats, but I clean up after myself, so no nanny ready to slap my hand is required. Why don't you suggest we ban food and drinks in all public spaces to clean up our City and streets? If not, what makes standing in a subway station that different than standing on the sidewalk at a bus stop?

junctionist said:
I find newspapers to be a bigger source of litter, especially with the pages strewn on the floor of a subway car. Enforcement of the TTC's bylaws can be effective. Plainclothes officers randomly coming onto vehicles and writing out tickets for littering or loud music would send a message to everyone quickly.
Click to expand...
Unless you are giving officers (police or by-law) a quota, you are spending money on enforcement. Is that where we really want police to be investigating? I'd rather trim back the police force and TTC by-law in with the other similar City enforcement groups and make them use public transit on route to their next inspection/enforcement location. You cover the TTC network while using wasted time of other public employees.
 
For many people eating and drinking on the subway is a necessity. It might mean the difference between eating and not eating that day. It's primarily an attack against the poorest people in the city who often face the longest commutes and are the most likely to work two jobs. For people like my girlfriend who work two jobs, and uses the TTC to get between one and the other, if she wasn't able to eat on the subway it would mean going roughly 8-10 hours between meals depending on when she gets her break at her second job. In my mind, someone's ability to nourish themselves trumps the smells that might cause you a temporary inconvenience.

I agree that litter is an issue, though not a very big one and I would make an exception for newspapers. I actually prefer when newspapers are left behind so I can make use of them (and it appears a lot of people do the same). Often they're just under or on seats, and they're not as unsightly as a Mcdonalds wrapper on the floor. Perhaps the answer is a place where newspapers can be stacked for re-use, though I would doubt how much success it would have.
 
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