[Mystic Point]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...amilies-squeeze-lives-tiniest-apartments.html

 

[nfitz]

1) What has this got to do with Toronto?

2) What has it got to do with The Guardian?

Wrong link?

 

[NorthYorkEd]

Foreshadowing, perhaps?

I found this part interesting:

"It was that shift from manufacturing to knowledge-based industry that has been main driving force for the area's wealth disparity."

We are seeing the exact same trend here in North America. Manufacturing jobs are being displaced from the local economy while the middle-class is being manipulated into accepting incredible levels of debt, basically ensuring decades of wealth erosion and indentured servitude.

 

[Hipster Duck]

Well, this has nothing to do with Toronto, and even at the rate we're going not even our poorest citizens (who aren't homeless) will live in apartments this cramped. They may live in apartments or neighbourhoods that have other problems, though.

Beyond that, I thought this expose was fascinating. I've always craved big, dense cities. I think I have a higher tolerance for density and agoraphilia than the average Torontonian; there isn't a single neighbourhood in Toronto that I feel couldn't be denser, including already-dense areas like St. Jamestown or St. Lawrence. That said, when I visited Hong Kong there were areas that felt suffocatingly dense, both inside the homes and outside on the street. The TST area of Kowloon, in particular, really got to me, because everywhere you turned there was a sea of humanity - beside you, below you, above you. The feeling was similar to that of exiting a large event like a concert or a sports game, but everywhere and at every turn. And knowing that the only place where you can get privacy is back in your 200/ft2 apartment? Well, I can see how that would be maddening.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Thanks for posting the photos MP - much appreciated. As someone who grew up in that city (and no stranger to density), those conditions are legitimately deplorable - there are truly zero excuses for it. If it was in the 50s/60s, during a period of extreme population growth and limited resources, I can understand that. But we're now talking about a government that was literally giving out cheques to its' citizens (including those living abroad) because there's too much cash floating around - and yet it can't bring itself to improving quality for its' most vulnerable citizens. I find that utterly indefensible.

And before anyone even mention anything about it being interventionist - Hong Kong always had an interventionist government when it comes to housing - fully 1/2 the population lives in social housing, and as spartan as it maybe then (and public housing really isn't that spartan nowadays) things are never this objectionable. And the scariest thing is - this isn't even the worst - look up cage housing/caged homes instead.

Hipster:

TST is paradise compared to the now demised Kowloon Walled City - it's literally a human hive (or perhaps better yet, Soleri's arcology). I remember it was an utter terra incognito as a kid (given no sane parent would have let their children anywhere near that place) - wondering why there are signage for dentists on literally every building facade (because as a piece of soverign Chinese soil, it was the only place they can practice without a license).

AoD

 

[Hipster Duck]

And before anyone even mention anything about it being interventionist - Hong Kong always had an interventionist government when it comes to housing - fully 1/2 the population lives in social housing, and as spartan as it maybe then (and public housing really isn't that spartan nowadays) things are never this objectionable. And the scariest thing is - this isn't even the worst - look up cage housing/caged homes instead.
Hipster:

TST is paradise compared to the now demised Kowloon Walled City - it's literally a human hive (or perhaps better yet, Soleri's arcology). I remember it was an utter terra incognito as a kid (given no sane parent would have let their children anywhere near that place) - wondering why there are signage for dentists on literally every building facade (because as a piece of soverign Chinese soil, it was the only place they can practice without a license).

AoD

Guaranteeing housing rights is a sad state of affairs all across the world, but you're right - it's perhaps saddest in Hong Kong, a country that once used interventionist policies in housing as a way to build a middle class. Where did that ethos go? And handing out cheques? When the Alberta government did this at the height of the oil boom, I thought they were a bunch of populist yokels, but even Alberta invested in a relatively decent welfare state (especially in education) with that surplus.

re: Soleri. It's funny that the only thing he ended up building was a half-baked (pun intended, because they make clay pots there) colony for three dozen artists in the middle of the Arizona desert. It's worth a visit, but it feels incredibly rustic, almost farm-like. It's about as opposite as you can get from an arcology!

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Guaranteeing housing rights is a sad state of affairs all across the world, but you're right - it's perhaps saddest in Hong Kong, a country that once used interventionist policies in housing as a way to build a middle class. Where did that ethos go? And handing out cheques? When the Alberta government did this at the height of the oil boom, I thought they were a bunch of populist yokels, but even Alberta invested in a relatively decent welfare state (especially in education) with that surplus.

This is a government more or less in cahoots with the developer cabal and addicted to revenues from land sales (wonder why HK can get by with such a low rates of taxation, for example?) - case in point - the government almost OKed the demoltion a perfectly fine, just completed, empty public residential complex for the so called sandwich class (lower middle class that doesn't qualify for public housing, but couldn't afford private developments either) and sold the land to a private developer for luxury condos.

re: Soleri. It's funny that the only thing he ended up building was a half-baked (pun intended, because they make clay pots there) colony for three dozen artists in the middle of the Arizona desert. It's worth a visit, but it feels incredibly rustic, almost farm-like. It's about as opposite as you can get from an arcology!

The case for a large, significant community in the middle of nowhere is always questionable anyway, but it's interesting that the closest thing to acrologies came about out of happenstance instead of meticulous planning.

AoD