I'm signing documents with my lawyer tomorrow, July 20. I've been told what my maintenance fees will be but as much higher than I expected I have been trying to get the developers to tell me at what rate it was calculated. Despite a number of calls, no response.

I too have many issues with things related to electricity, plumbing, heat pump. I've received many promises about when they will be fixed... but nothing has happened.

The gym is open in that people are using it but apparently the property managers can't take over until the transfer, which is tomorrow.

I notice that there is a note from someone in the lobby that the closing process is a 'nightmare' and suggesting some action, but there is no info about who is so upset. I have also heard rumours of problems with flooding at TD Bank, which is on the ground floor, and that air conditioning generally is problematic although my only problem has been that it is really noisy. If that's the heat pump filter, changing that should help but I can't get any service for it.

They are grossly understaffed. I don't like to be rude to the schlub on the front lines but being pleasant and understanding certainly isn't getting me anywhere.

Are those on this list who are now in the building interested in meeting up to exchange information?
 
stellab said:
I'm signing documents with my lawyer tomorrow, July 20. I've been told what my maintenance fees will be but as much higher than I expected I have been trying to get the developers to tell me at what rate it was calculated. Despite a number of calls, no response.

I too have many issues with things related to electricity, plumbing, heat pump. I've received many promises about when they will be fixed... but nothing has happened.

The gym is open in that people are using it but apparently the property managers can't take over until the transfer, which is tomorrow.

I notice that there is a note from someone in the lobby that the closing process is a 'nightmare' and suggesting some action, but there is no info about who is so upset. I have also heard rumours of problems with flooding at TD Bank, which is on the ground floor, and that air conditioning generally is problematic although my only problem has been that it is really noisy. If that's the heat pump filter, changing that should help but I can't get any service for it.

They are grossly understaffed. I don't like to be rude to the schlub on the front lines but being pleasant and understanding certainly isn't getting me anywhere.

Are those on this list who are now in the building interested in meeting up to exchange information?
Click to expand...


Hi Stella,
I saw the note to which you refer! When I inquired about it with the concierge, he said it was just "some juvenile 30yr old" and then he proceeded to scratch off the writing.

I have had many many issues with my unit - items since the PDI that the Builder has not even come in to assess, never mind repair. Absolutely nothing has been done with 30-day issues. Emails are simply not responded to.

When I tried calling the Builder today, the number went directly to voicemail and the mailbox was full.

I know of a few unhappy residents. I would definitely be interested in hooking up to discuss some of our mutual issues.

PS: I had mentioned about the maintenance before - it went up 20% - ostensibly (Builder's explanation) due to the HST and garbage taxes, etc.

Let's keep this thread going and try to meet up - feel free to PM me if you need any further details. Hope you got your closing costs capped.
 
closing overcharge

Well, I am the "some juvenile 30yr old" and I am really upset because I got my closing bill on Friday and it is 23,000.

I can accept the fact that most probably my lawyer stinks after not being able to cap the levies but I cannot accept 10,000 uncapped levies and 6,000 Section 37 Agreement.

I did wrote a note inviting residents to meet tomorrow, 8 p.m., Media room in case they have similar or other issues with the builder and management.

Cheers.
 
stan said:
Well, I am the "some juvenile 30yr old" and I am really upset because I got my closing bill on Friday and it is 23,000.

I can accept the fact that most probably my lawyer stinks after not being able to cap the levies but I cannot accept 10,000 uncapped levies and 6,000 Section 37 Agreement.

I did wrote a note inviting residents to meet tomorrow, 8 p.m., Media room in case they have similar or other issues with the builder and management.

Cheers.
Click to expand...
I feel really bad for you Stan. I just met with my lawyer who went over the levies, but thank god he had the agreement ammended before signing to cap them. That is exactly what a good real estate lawyer should be doing. He went over all the levies with me and even got proof from the builder for the charges, they are not made up and are unfortunately very real. It's a sad reality that the builders have every right to pass on these charges to the owners. If the builders have to pay the city $1,000,000 for development charges, this is distributed amongst all unit owners based on square footage. You can calculate your unit's percentage from the Statement of Adjustments given by the builder at closing, under the 2010 Land Taxes section. From there it says that land taxes were paid to the city in the amount of $277,541.28 for the whole building, then under "Amount apportioned to the Unit" you are shown what you owe (divide the two to get your unit's percentage). As an example, my unit is worth approx 0.4%, so for a $1M development charge I would be charged $4000, but luckily my lawyer had this amount capped.

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but unfortunately I don't think there's anything you can do. If you refuse to pay, the builder will not transfer title ownership to you, they will evict you and can sue you for the amount owed. I'll see you at tonight's meeting.

-- Jason
 
wongnog said:
I feel really bad for you Stan. I just met with my lawyer who went over the levies, but thank god he had the agreement ammended before signing to cap them. That is exactly what a good real estate lawyer should be doing. He went over all the levies with me and even got proof from the builder for the charges, they are not made up and are unfortunately very real. It's a sad reality that the builders have every right to pass on these charges to the owners. If the builders have to pay the city $1,000,000 for development charges, this is distributed amongst all unit owners based on square footage. You can calculate your unit's percentage from the Statement of Adjustments given by the builder at closing, under the 2010 Land Taxes section. From there it says that land taxes were paid to the city in the amount of $277,541.28 for the whole building, then under "Amount apportioned to the Unit" you are shown what you owe (divide the two to get your unit's percentage). As an example, my unit is worth approx 0.4%, so for a $1M development charge I would be charged $4000, but luckily my lawyer had this amount capped.


I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but unfortunately I don't think there's anything you can do. If you refuse to pay, the builder will not transfer title ownership to you, they will evict you and can sue you for the amount owed. I'll see you at tonight's meeting.

-- Jason
Click to expand...

Thank you for the response Jason, it is very usefull information for me.

From your explanation I understand that there is some kind of formula for calculating the levies (which my lawyer didn't bother to explain) and that according to this formula you should be charged 4,000. I assume my levies should be calculated in the same way so I can understand paying unacapped levies in the range 6,000-7000 but my total amount (development charge+park+educational) is above 10,000. This is the point.

Can you tell me how your lawyer explains "Section 37 Agreement amount - 6,000"?
 
As I explained above, you can calculate your unit percentage from the numbers shown in the land taxes. Based on what you were charged under Section 37, I am going to assume your unit percentage is around 0.58%, which sounds about right for a 2 bedroom unit. My lawyer was able to give me copies of the builder's development charges and levies as issued by the City of Toronto, I will be happy to make you a copy for tonight. He explained to me the charges as follows:

Development: paying city for increased city development, e.g. police, water, sewage, fire dept, street lights, etc
Education: paying city for building of schools
Parks: paying city for increased green land
Water meter and installation: self-explanatory
Section 37: paying city to increase zoning from low-density to high-density

All the above are meant to aid the city due to the population increase that arises from a multi-unit condominium dwelling. The builder will gladly pay the city whatever they want, but unfortunately they then pass on these costs to the unit owners upon closing as per the purchase agreement. Believe me, I don't agree with any of these nor did I understand any of it until I spoke to my lawyer. I have never in my life been happier to have found a good one, and would be happy to refer him to anyone else interested. Unfortunately, this won't help you one bit for your current closing but perhaps for future real estate purchases...
 
Last edited:
wongnog said:
As I explained above, you can calculate your unit percentage from the numbers shown in the land taxes. Based on what you were charged under Section 37, I am going to assume your unit percentage is around 0.58%, which sounds about right for a 2 bedroom unit. My lawyer was able to give me copies of the builder's development charges and levies as issued by the City of Toronto, I will be happy to make you a copy for tonight. He explained to me the charges as follows:

Development: paying city for increased city development, e.g. police, water, sewage, fire dept, street lights, etc
Education: paying city for building of schools
Parks: paying city for increased green land
Water meter and installation: self-explanatory
Section 37: paying city to increase zoning from low-density to high-density

All the above are meant to aid the city due to the population increase that arises from a multi-unit condominium dwelling. The builder will gladly pay the city whatever they want, but unfortunately they then pass on these costs to the unit owners upon closing as per the purchase agreement. Believe me, I don't agree with any of these nor did I understand any of it until I spoke to my lawyer. I have never in my life been happier to have found a good one, and would be happy to refer him to anyone else interested. Unfortunately, this won't help you one bit for your current closing but perhaps for future real estate purchases...
Click to expand...

Hi Jason, I pm'd you - would love the name of your lawyer. Many thanks.
 
The levis from the city such as parks levy and developer fee is something we cannot dispute as it pertains to the city charges, but the Section 37 charges is just absurd. The developer knew these costs going forward to get the project approved. Why didn't they put the costs into the purchase price of the condo and why didn't the disclose to their purchasers the final obligation at the point of signing?

Its obvious their lack of disclosure and their non-arms length transactions makes me bitter that I bought a new development condo in the first place.

Can't wait till I post in the 530 St. Clair West forums about their history with 500 condo. Hopefully it limits their ability to sell any units next door.
 
Age said:
The levis from the city such as parks levy and developer fee is something we cannot dispute as it pertains to the city charges, but the Section 37 charges is just absurd. The developer knew these costs going forward to get the project approved. Why didn't they put the costs into the purchase price of the condo and why didn't the disclose to their purchasers the final obligation at the point of signing?

Its obvious their lack of disclosure and their non-arms length transactions makes me bitter that I bought a new development condo in the first place.

Can't wait till I post in the 530 St. Clair West forums about their history with 500 condo. Hopefully it limits their ability to sell any units next door.
Click to expand...

I agree and at the same time I don't see anything we can do about it. By "we" I mean people who paid more than 20,000 in closing charges and there are plenty of us. If it was just me I would blame it on my lawyer but it is not a matter of our lawyers incompetence. For most of the lawyers it is just routine deal and they simply couldn't imagine that the builder law firm can hit so bad.

@jason - increasing of zoning from low to high density is just a part of Section 37 Agreement, and even if it was the major part of it - "Why didn't they put the costs into the purchase price of the condo and why didn't the disclose to their purchasers the final obligation at the point of signing?"

pp. I'll join the facebook group to continue there
 
Renting

Hello,

My boyfriend and I are interested in renting a 2 bedroom at 500 St. Clair West. PM me if anyone is looking to rent out a unit.
 
Petition draft to Joe Mihevc - City Councillor for Ward 21 St. Paul's.

I will go to collect signatures after I finalize it according to reccomendations I get here or on facebook.

----

Dear Mr. Mihevc,

We are a group of owners of 500 St. Clair Ave. West. The new condo has recently registered with the City. Few days before the closing date, we received our closing bills, which shocked us extremely. Some of the closing costs went as high as more than $20,000! Among all the cost items, the “Section 37 Agreement” stands out. Depending on the unit size, it can reach more than $5000!

As advised by our lawyers, “Section 37 Agreement” is an agreement signed in 2004 between the City and the builder – the builder agreed to give the city $1,000,000 to develop the neighborhood. The development is “Wychwood Barns” project. The builder subsequently passed this amount over to the purchasers. Our obligation to pay for “Section 37 Agreement” is stated in our purchasing agreement, without mentioning the specific amount of money incurred. No detailed information on “Section 37 Agreement” is available either in our purchasing agreement or the builder’s disclosure booklet. One of our lawyers actually said that throughout his professional service years, he has never seen such a huge amount of “Section 37 Agreement” cost!

We believe that as purchasers, we are not supposed to share any portion of this $1,000,000 project that was agreed upon between the City and the builder. Without properly disclosing the information, the builder’s lawyer simply added one clause in the purchasing agreement to pass over the huge amount of cost to us. In that way, everything appears legal, however, we don’t agree that this “obligation” imposed on us is just. As purchasers, our obligations to share the cost of developing the neighborhood are fulfilled by paying our portion of levies i.e. Development Charge, Educational Levies and Park Levies.

Owners in the building, who disagree about the builder passing over the cost of “Section 37 Agreement” to its purchasers, signed this petition. Being aware that we all finally paid the big closing bills as we are legally bond to, we would still like to bring the matter up to you and the City, hoping that justice to condo purchasers will eventually take place through making our voice heard now – as taxpayers, we’ve contributed to the development of the city; as purchasers, we paid levies; we want an ending to the endless ripping off!
Thank you!

Sincerely yours,

20 Owners of 500 St. Clair Ave. West
 
Pursuant to yesterday's meeting, I think we definitely need to look at the expenses that our maintenance fees are supposed to be covering. In my previous condo, which had also been a new construction, we had a Full Time On Site property manager AND admin assistant, 24 hour concierge, a full time maintenance person, a recreation director and my condo fees after 5 years for a 1brm were just under $300 (and this with the coming of the HST & garbage tax). Something doesn't ring right here.
 
Any owner can get a copy of the budget and ask questions about the cost of some services. However, my experience with a previous condo -- an old apartment building with few amenities, a full time superintendent -- is that condos with low maintenance fees are setting themselves up for future problems. They may be underfunded and when something arises that isn't in the budget, the condo corp has to charge a special levy that can be thousands of dollars. Your condo must have been huge to have been able to afford your amenities on such a low maintenance fee.

Also, I would like to know more about how our 'part time property manager' works. What that means, I think, is that they expect to spend a certain number of days a week managing our property and we pay them accordingly. I have no interest in hiring and paying a property manager to be here 5 days or more a week if the job can be done in two. We should wait and see how responsive they are and what they can accomplish in the part-time hours we are paying them for.

The new board should review the budget with the property managers, understand what we are paying for and identify where we might save money -- or at least cap expenses -- in the future. But I don't think we should automatically assume that because we are paying more than we expected that we are being gouged. I think our concierge services are pretty good; I'm not so sure about the cleaning services. But I'm in favour of a careful examination of the budget and taking the time to make prudent decisions. If we are too hasty, one way or another we will pay for it.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top