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I stand corrected - yes, Minister Alghabra did promise federal support for 2-way Milton GO - see here.

One would imagine that if Bonnie Crombie ever got into power at QP, the idea might resurface.

But as to forward direction - if there is design work going on, or even a business case discussion, it's still at an early stage.

- Paul
Well Omar was from Mississauga and couldn't get it done.. He's retired if people don't know.... Now I would assume if Bonnie gets in that this would be a priority but who knows.
 
Check the UT thread Go Transit Midtown Corridor. Seaton has appeared in many studies and in the Big Move strategy document. It was not carried over to the 2041 Regional Transportation Plan. To my knowledge it has never had an EA or a Business Case Analysis, but ML certainly knows that the line is there. One sees it suggested from time to time - but not with any immediate intent to pursue.

- Paul
Thanks. I was mostly interested in historical attempts, ie pre-2000 where it might've been distinct from the Midtown; GO might've just wanted to run a tiny number of trains to ad-hoc stations. A sort of 'pre-service' to more substantive improvements that never came, since it seems they did this with every line they could get their hands on. I can understand at the same time however that GO might've only been interested if Seaton was built out much earlier in its history, given that true 905 development was the impetus for alot of GO service, not necessarily 416 (and Scarborough would've been the only big winner). I suppose that its also redundant from this perspective of 'coverage' if you already have the Stouffville and LSE lines.
 
Thanks. I was mostly interested in historical attempts, ie pre-2000 where it might've been distinct from the Midtown; GO might've just wanted to run a tiny number of trains to ad-hoc stations. A sort of 'pre-service' to more substantive improvements that never came, since it seems they did this with every line they could get their hands on. I can understand at the same time however that GO might've only been interested if Seaton was built out much earlier in its history, given that true 905 development was the impetus for alot of GO service, not necessarily 416 (and Scarborough would've been the only big winner). I suppose that its also redundant from this perspective of 'coverage' if you already have the Stouffville and LSE lines.

There were a series of studies around 1992 which looked to future GO lines. The North Toronto line proposal extended to Markham Road but on the Havelock route. That study clearly referenced all other routes under consideration, and is silent on Seaton - which indicates it wasn't on the list at that time.

- Paul
 
In case we were wondering which country's processes are being copied by the OnCorr contractor (Onxpress), check out the wording of this job ad on linkedIn:
Onxpress Train Access Mgr
It includes:
"the aim of increasing network capacity and improving performance for Freightliner services"
"Prepare comments for the Office of Rail and Road & Network Rail on Supplemental Agreements"

On the plus side, this looks like the roll that will negotiate access to host railways for GO Train Expansion.
 
In case we were wondering which country's processes are being copied by the OnCorr contractor (Onxpress), check out the wording of this job ad on linkedIn:
Onxpress Train Access Mgr
It includes:
"the aim of increasing network capacity and improving performance for Freightliner services"
"Prepare comments for the Office of Rail and Road & Network Rail on Supplemental Agreements"

On the plus side, this looks like the roll that will negotiate access to host railways for GO Train Expansion.
I don’t quite understand. Which country would that be?
 
The retired HR guy in me had a few flashbacks about draft job ads that were cribbed from unusual sources outside the orgainization.

By setting up OnCorr, some ML staffers are effectively redundant and may have to apply to OnCorr to gain a continuing position if they want to keep doing the work they have been doing up to now. "You have to reapply for your job" is a time honoured part of big corporate reorgainizations.

Wouldn't be the first time that a job spec was written in a way that only the desired candidate had the required qualifications.

And then there is the reality that to hire from abroad, an employer has to convince the government officials that they have attempted to recruit within Canada, but were unable to find qualified candidates....

But maybe I'm just being cynical....

- Paul
 
Since GO has to deal with CP and their hostility towards passenger agencies regarding the Milton Line, I feel it would instead be better for them to find a way to have the original 21 service back. The “have riders change onto LW trains to go to Union” strategy doesn’t seem to be that effective.
I 100% agree. The original 21s were very convenient for a number of reasons for me. I wish GO would at least compromise and run a half lakeshore half original operation depending on time of the day. I literally see 0 reason to run the lakeshore ones after 8-9pm when traffic is not nearly as bad most days. The other biggest sting with this new 21 is the discontinued service at Dixie GO. I used to use that station a lot and it's a pain that it's rush hour only now (there is not even any proper Mi-Way service in the station). I'm not sure how to lobby for any sort of service changes other than crossing my fingers and holding my breath. Maybe a local politician?
 
I 100% agree. The original 21s were very convenient for a number of reasons for me. I wish GO would at least compromise and run a half lakeshore half original operation depending on time of the day. I literally see 0 reason to run the lakeshore ones after 8-9pm when traffic is not nearly as bad most days. The other biggest sting with this new 21 is the discontinued service at Dixie GO. I used to use that station a lot and it's a pain that it's rush hour only now (there is not even any proper Mi-Way service in the station). I'm not sure how to lobby for any sort of service changes other than crossing my fingers and holding my breath. Maybe a local politician?
I'd suggest you start with your Member of Provincial Parliament's office. Or, if they aren't of the same party as the current provincial government, the nearest OPC MPP.
 
I 100% agree. The original 21s were very convenient for a number of reasons for me. I wish GO would at least compromise and run a half lakeshore half original operation depending on time of the day. I literally see 0 reason to run the lakeshore ones after 8-9pm when traffic is not nearly as bad most days. The other biggest sting with this new 21 is the discontinued service at Dixie GO. I used to use that station a lot and it's a pain that it's rush hour only now (there is not even any proper Mi-Way service in the station). I'm not sure how to lobby for any sort of service changes other than crossing my fingers and holding my breath. Maybe a local politician?

TBH I always absolutely hated being on a non-express bus from Erindale because it would take it's sweet ass time getting to Cooksville, but at least Cooksville has riders, and then onto Dixie which most of the time no one would get on or get off and the bus literally just wasted time going there.

I can definitely understand why GO didn't think Dixie was worth serving with a bus. It's so close to Toronto you can take a quick bus ride to the subway.

I don't look forward to it's return, whenever 21 bus service comes back, if ever.

To be fair, I do see riders at Dixie taking the train.

My biggest fear is that if/when they bring back the old 21, Dixie will be back and they'll add Kipling. That would be awful from my perspective.
 
I 100% agree. The original 21s were very convenient for a number of reasons for me. I wish GO would at least compromise and run a half lakeshore half original operation depending on time of the day. I literally see 0 reason to run the lakeshore ones after 8-9pm when traffic is not nearly as bad most days. The other biggest sting with this new 21 is the discontinued service at Dixie GO. I used to use that station a lot and it's a pain that it's rush hour only now (there is not even any proper Mi-Way service in the station). I'm not sure how to lobby for any sort of service changes other than crossing my fingers and holding my breath. Maybe a local politician?
The new 21 service would've been better if there was 15 min all day service again on Lakeshore. Have the Oakville only trains connect to the buses and it wouldn't feel like an overstuffed journey or make the overall time feel longer than it is. But I agree with running half direct and half Lakeshore service depending on the time of the day.
 
The new 21 service would've been better if there was 15 min all day service again on Lakeshore. Have the Oakville only trains connect to the buses and it wouldn't feel like an overstuffed journey or make the overall time feel longer than it is. But I agree with running half direct and half Lakeshore service depending on the time of the day.

Yeah, with 15 minute train service, it doesn’t really matter too much if there’s a missed connection. The rerouting of Route 21 really should have coincided with the restoration of the pre-pandemic service level, and made it all day, seven days.

The lack of peak direction buses on the Oakville-Milton branch is really disappointing too.
 
Yeah, with 15 minute train service, it doesn’t really matter too much if there’s a missed connection. The rerouting of Route 21 really should have coincided with the restoration of the pre-pandemic service level, and made it all day, seven days.

The lack of peak direction buses on the Oakville-Milton branch is really disappointing too.
The Oakville-Milton branch should be called the 20 again at least during rush hours if they don’t want to run their “train replacement bus” service in the peak direction.

Oakville has really grown with transit as there’s about 10-15 min service combined on Trafalgar between all the GO and OT services. Also sure that there’s been a bit of new growth from Oakville and nearby places like Burlington/Hamilton riders that travel to and from Milton which is made more possible and convenient due to the 21 rerouting.

That’s actually the one good thing about this change, its that it connects the region a lot more better this way if you disregard the DT Toronto travel. It also helps that Milton is better connected now thanks to their 21 Steeles bus so now you can directly travel to Guelph, Waterloo, Oakville, Mississauga, Brampton, and Toronto from right in Milton without transferring.
 
The new-to-the-Kitchener Line bike coaches are very popular in the evenings. Right out of Union the lower level is completely packed. Then by Mount Pleasant the coach is completely empty

Before and after

IMG_4208.jpeg

IMG_4209.jpeg
 

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