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Mike in TO

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Brampton - Heart Lake Community - 6 Towers

The City of Brampton has refused an application for O.P. & zb/l amendments in the city’s Heart Lake community. Royalcliff Developments Inc. and Lake Path Holdings Inc. applied in February 2007, proposing 6 apartment towers, ranging from 18-32 storeys tall and 47 townhouses at Conestoga Drive and Sandalwood Parkway. The proposed density was approximately 149 units per acre. Royalcliff and Lake Path appealed the amendments to the OMB last January and the six week hearing is set to begin January 12, 2009.
 
Comparison and contrast:

The proposal includes 6 residential towers ranging from 18 to 32 storeys and townhouses totalling 1,443 units, yielding a density of 149 units per acre

VS​

site has existing zoning permissions for 2 residential towers at 18 storeys containing 419 units, and a maximum density of 80 units per acre (as per Official Plan)
 
A somewhat odd place for a mega-development of 7 buildings ranging from 7 to 20 stories, at Sandalwood at Conestoga in the north area of Heart Lake. Mostly residential with some offices proposed. It's far from the urban growth corridors of Queen and Main Streets and far from GO Transit.

There's also some mid rise buildings proposed for Heart Lake Road north of Bovaird (Hwy 7), so there's more to come in the general area.

The city sided with local residents and voted against the project, but the OMB ruled in favour.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/801401--fight-brews-on-brampton-condo-tower-project
 
ShonTron said:
A somewhat odd place for a mega-development of 7 buildings ranging from 7 to 20 stories, at Sandalwood at Conestoga in the north area of Heart Lake. Mostly residential with some offices proposed. It's far from the urban growth corridors of Queen and Main Streets and far from GO Transit.

There's also some mid rise buildings proposed for Heart Lake Road north of Bovaird (Hwy 7), so there's more to come in the general area.

The city sided with local residents and voted against the project, but the OMB ruled in favour.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/801401--fight-brews-on-brampton-condo-tower-project
Click to expand...

I live not too far from these (and the planned mid-rises off of the re-routed Heart Lake Rd).

Contrary to popular opinion, I think this is an excellent location for a bit of a higher density node. Some of my reasons:


1. The area is very well served by shopping/schools/parks etc. For intensification to work it has to leverage existing infrastructure these will add residents and tax base and require virtually no public investment in additional infrastructure;

2. While Sandalwood is a very busy road, it was designed to be so. It is a 4 lane divided road with limited doorways on it that connects directly to the 410.

3. Transit in the area isn't bad. The site is directly across the street from a mini-terminal of BT which can handle greater capacity and has a few routes passing through it. I believe the Sandalwood bus goes right to the Mt. Pleasant GO station...what can that be a 10 - 12 minute ride?

4. If Brampton is to intensify, each part of Brampton has to share the load. There is virtually no "height" in this area at all. It is irresponsible (and a tad bit NIMBY) for people in the HL area to say "yes lets intensify development in the city but why not just do it over there".

Even under very old planning/zoning (3 or 4 decads old) this site was targeted for over 400 units. Given the changes in our society, making it twice as dense this many years later does not seem unreasonable to me.

I think the city knows this, I think the politicians are fighting the OMB decision because they feel they have to in an election year. Politicians have two jobs....get elected and govern. In an election year the first one is most important....I get that.....but I also understand that this is one of reasons we need non-political bodies like the OMB to make sure that job does not lead to bad planning.

The city's position (long held) that this should be built on Queen Street does not convince at all. Firstly, I don't think this developer owns land on Queen Street....so to tell them to build it there is a bit strange. Secondly, I think the market has spoken on Queen Street long ago. The city has been promoting its Queen Corridor for a couple of decades now. While some of the old car dealerships east of Kennedy have gone....they have, for the most part, been replaced by empty lots. I suspect if there were a market for high rise residential in that node...some of those lots would have seen building on them during the last couple of cycles....and they have not....perhaps no one wants to live on Queen between Kennedy and the 410.
 
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I'm not against this development, in fact I would hope that the (presumably 502) Main Zum route would go to Heart Lake rather than terminate at Sandalwood and Hurontario as shown in the plans. But it is an odd area to intensify, being so far from so much that has worked so far for Brampton condos.

There is the local library branch and community shopping centre nearby, so it's not a bad place to go, just an odd place. The city also can't dictate where developers can and can not apply to build things; there's no parcel along Queen suited to this type of massive growth. If you put it on the north side of Queen, you'll raise the ire of Archdekin Road residents too.

The land was zoned for high density residential, just for fewer units, so this isn't an out-of-left-field OMB decision, unlike say Giraffe.
 
ShonTron said:
I'm not against this development, in fact I would hope that the (presumably 502) Main Zum route would go to Heart Lake rather than terminate at Sandalwood and Hurontario as shown in the plans. But it is an odd area to intensify, being so far from so much that has worked so far for Brampton condos.

There is the local library branch and community shopping centre nearby, so it's not a bad place to go, just an odd place. The city also can't dictate where developers can and can not apply to build things; there's no parcel along Queen suited to this type of massive growth. If you put it on the north side of Queen, you'll raise the ire of Archdekin Road residents too.

The land was zoned for high density residential, just for fewer units, so this isn't an out-of-left-field OMB decision, unlike say Giraffe.
Click to expand...

I think we largely agree......it is interesting, however, how irate some of my Heart Lake neighbours get when ever someone proposes anything other than a subdivision of 2,400 s.f. two storey homes. Not sure if you are familiar with the Loews store at Heart Lake and Bovaird. The meetings in opposition to that were incredible......the one thing I know a bit about is retail real estate.....there was, likely, no better site in the GTA for a Loews and yet you would think the proposal was for a toxic dump.....people were proposing such interesting uses as, get this, a mini-putt course to compliment the new golf course across the street!

One thing I am confused about....does the Main Zum line go ahead if the LRT that Mississauga and Brampton are proposing....I know it does not go past the 4 corners but it does seem like a bit of overkill having BRT and LRT on the same route?
 
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On Hurontario Zum would probably just have the specially marked buses, and would presumably only be temporary until the LRT was built, and from then on they could be redeploye to other Zum routes I'd guess. But I'm just guessing. Zum is going ahead regardless of what happens on Hurontario after all.
 
That's right. Brampton is going to be rebuilding intersections along Main/Hurontario for queue jumps and larger bus bays, and a new Shoppers World terminal right on the corner of Steeles and Main, but it will be less work than what was done on Queen.

The Hurontario LRT boards show the Zum line up for 2011 between Sandalwood and Square One as an intermediate step before LRT is built and operated. MT would also run an express bus (likely the 202) to Steeles.
 
thanks ShonTron ... it sure is exciting to see intensification coming to this part of Brampton ~
 
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Anyone heard any more about this? As far as I know, the City's appeal of the original OMB ruling was heard some time ago (April/May of this year).....just wondering if the appeal decision is forthcoming....no chance this is being held back until after the municipal elections is there?
 
From the Brampton Fish Wrap:

Brampton Guardian: City loses Heart Lake appeal

-- EXCERPT --

By PAM DOUGLAS
Oct 14, 2010 - 4:27 PM


City loses Heart Lake appeal

In a surprisingly brief, two-sentence decision, a judge has upheld the Ontario Municipal Board’s (OMB) approval of a multi-highrise development in Heart Lake, according to area councillor Paul Palleschi.

“It’s just devastating news,” said an emotional Palleschi 20 minutes after receiving word of the decision Thursday. “We fought so hard...”

Mr. Justice Gordon Lemon upheld the OMB decision, according to Palleschi, leaving the city with no more legal avenues of appeal.

“He doesn’t believe there was enough of an error in law to kick it (the appeal) up to a three-judge panel,” Palleschi said. “We have basically exhausted our legal route.”
“I’m devastated. I can’t, I just don’t know what else to say,” Palleschi said. “It’s the worst piece of news that I’ve had in an awful long time. We thought that common sense would still prevail, but it didn’t.”

The city’s appeal of the OMB decision was heard over two days in July.
Palleschi said that, after waiting so long for a decision, he expected full written reasons for the judgement, and was surprised by the brevity of what was released to the city Thursday.

Now, the city has no other recourse, but to try to convince the provincial government that the OMB decision was wrong.
“What we have to do is go to the Premier,” Palleschi said. “We have to deal with the politics of it now.”
Also, he said the developer still has to go through site plan approval, and the city can make that process as stringent as possible, which could make it too “pricey” for the development to go ahead.
Click to expand...

It's over, the City should now let the developer go ahead, while developing the best possible site plan under the circumstances. The talk of making it too "pricey" is good politics, but that's all.

I don't think this was the right density for this location, but with a minor commercial centre, parks, recreation and other amenities not too far away, it's not that bad. I think the Main Street Zum bus should go to Heart Lake Centre, not terminate at Hurontario and Sandalwood, and that at least would bring higher-order transit (and a quick ride to the GO Train) to the area.
 
Good.

Myself and a few other people following this story, and following the Facebook opposition group over the past months, are glad this debacle is over. I've gotten several nasty private messages from members of that group over my "support" (I'm not actually a fan of the height, but I do think this type of development would be good for the area) of the project.
 
I had supported this development since it was first proposed and I'm happy with the outcome. However, I'm not happy with the fact that a decade long friendship was lost over my opinion. Of course we can say they weren't very good friends if they decided to harass me over a differing opinion.
 
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