[dunkalunk]

This thread is set up to discuss any possible rail connction between Kitchener and Hamilton. A passenger rail connection between the two areas has long been a gap in the existing intercity passenger rail network and if filled, would greatly increase both passenger and freight mobility in Southwestern Ontario. I encourage you to submit your own ideas or challenge mine.


Here as an alignment I worked up:

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=112509077600247168599.00047bd670472376ae394&ll=43.422006,-80.190582&spn=0.744087,1.399384&t=h&z=10

Intercity trains would stop at these stations: Kitchener, Guelph, Campbellville, Aldershot, and the restored Hamilton North Station. There could also be possible extensions on certain trains to Niagara Falls

The blue lines are existing rail corridors with passenger service, the green are new connecting corridors at Guelph and bypassing Waterdown, and the Red line is a straightening and upgrade of the Guelph Junction Railway. This line may be longer than a direct route, but it also has other advantages:
-By using existing rail corridors, it is possible to cut down on the amount of private land needed to be purchased for constuction
-The relative straightness and upgrades to the Guelph Subdivision and the Guelph Junction Railway could be integrated into a future high speed rail corridor
-By connecting to Downtown Guelph, it would increase the ridership of the line, and through increaseed service between Kitchener and Guelph from overlapping GO and VIA service, would make rail travel between the cities much more convenient and decrease demand for a Highway 7 Bypass
-Connecting to Aldershot would provide better alternatives for those travelling to places west of Union Station through all day service on the GO Lakeshore Line

One significant obstacle to this alignemnt would be going down the Niagara Escarpment, which would very possibly be the most expensive component of this project, or any project to create a higher speed rail connection between Hamilton and Kitchener.

While these could be mitigated by building an alignment that would connect to the Dundas Subdivision near Highway 25, the ability to connect all of the aforementioned nodes with one non-branching route be lost. It would also bypass many areas of denser population and largely run through rural, undevelopable land. It would make connecting to the Toronto-Aldershot-Hamilton VIA rail route from Waterloo Region a more lengthy process as there would be very few places to constuct a new station due to surrounding geography.

 

[RedRocket191]

I support, in principle, any attempt to increase passenger rail service in Ontario.

If we're willing to restore historic railway alignments, then we might be able to avoid deal with the escarpment in a different way.

The old Lake Erie and Northern once paralleled the Grand River from Galt to Brantford, where it connected to the Toronto, Hamilton & Buffalo for a straight shot into downtown Hamilton. The right of way has been built over Galt and Brantford, but it otherwise intact.

The other option is to take the old Great Western Galt Branch from Galt to Harrisburg, then the abandoned main to Lyden. From there, the Dundas sub heads towards Hamilton. The right of way has been built over in Galt, but it is more intact than the LE&NR.

You can view it here.

Bottom line, we need to look at restoring these links if we want to allow these smaller communities to continue to exist once oil become prohibitively expensive.

 

[urbanfan89]

This is going off a tangent, but China is building two tiers of high speed railways. One is the Passenger Dedicated Line system, which will be for long distance express trains on major corridors such as Beijing - Shanghai, Beijing - Wuhan - Hong Kong, Shanghai - Wuhan - Chongqing, etc. The other is the "Intercity" system, which will serve passengers travelling within a metropolitan area: Yangtze Delta, Pearl Delta, Sichuan, Beijing/Tianjin, etc. In some cases PDL and Intercity lines will be parallel to each other, with the latter having shorter station spacing.

So perhaps in addition to ruminating about a Quebec - Detroit HSR line, we should also consider a regional GO Express system connecting Toronto with Kitchener, Hamilton, Peterborough, Barrie, and so forth.

 

[dunkalunk]

The line following the Grand River has been converted to a rail-trail, (Really recommended spring-summer bike trip) although depending on the condition and ownership of the Great Western Line alignment, it may be worth reactivating it and building a new section to reconnect the line to the CP mainline. The new branch could be built from Branchton (convenient naming) to around the area of Clyde and Franklin, but only in addition to the upgrading of the Guelph Junction Railway and the CP Hamilton Subdivision.

I also neglected to mention that this line should be electrified in addition to all passenger lines with frequent service, although I figured that was a given, and should not be allowed to be a prohibitive cost.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Certainly if Hamilton is going to grow beyond a bedroom community/industrial city it is going to need it's own hub for passenger rail. It's ideally located to be a hub for GO both for further travel towards Toronto and/or Niagara but also for any businessess that would/might locate there in the future. A connection to the K-W-G region would give it links to the strong tech core that exists there.

 

[DavidJamesTO]

The line following the Grand River has been converted to a rail-trail, (Really recommended spring-summer bike trip) although depending on the condition and ownership of the Great Western Line alignment, it may be worth reactivating it and building a new section to reconnect the line to the CP mainline. The new branch could be built from Branchton (convenient naming) to around the area of Clyde and Franklin, but only in addition to the upgrading of the Guelph Junction Railway and the CP Hamilton Subdivision.

There are actually two parallel main lines in that area. There's the old Lake Erie and Northern alignment, which is a rail trail, and across Highway 24 is the old CN alignment, which was abandoned around the same time. You can still see some evidence of the old line--the entrance to Churchill Park is bordered by a bridge retaining wall (used to be two, but one was demolished to widen the one-land driveway).

In any case, there should be enough room to fit a trail in should there be a desire to rebuild the railway line.

 

[dunkalunk]

If that were to happen, it would be less expensive to build an entirely new alignment. Large sections of the corridor are built on an embankment with a ditch on one side and the Grand River on the other. It would also be inctredibly difficult to get the aproval of the GRCA (Grand River Conservation Authority).

 

[Second_in_pie]

I thoroughly like this idea. This is the kind of route that Go would be quite eligible to operate, and would do a lot to help for travel between the two regions. Might even make a highway between the two redundant.

Certainly if Hamilton is going to grow beyond a bedroom community/industrial city it is going to need it's own hub for passenger rail. It's ideally located to be a hub for GO both for further travel towards Toronto and/or Niagara but also for any businessess that would/might locate there in the future. A connection to the K-W-G region would give it links to the strong tech core that exists there.

I'd hope that a Hamilton train hub would somehow be located in the city centre, where the Go train stops right now. The problem there getting back on the Lakeshore track. They should figure out how to get back on that track, because after that it's just a simple question of adding more track to smooth out movement along with CP. It'd certainly be a shame if Toronto-New York HSR got built, but Hamilton's station was somewhere on the waterfront.

 

[kettal]

The obvious question: is there any chance that it will be used by more than a bus load of people?

 

[RedRocket191]

If that were to happen, it would be less expensive to build an entirely new alignment. Large sections of the corridor are built on an embankment with a ditch on one side and the Grand River on the other. It would also be inctredibly difficult to get the aproval of the GRCA (Grand River Conservation Authority).

The province is the master of the GRCA, and the province would be the one building new railways, so approval would not be an issue.

 

[andrewpmk]

First we need to have frequent GO bus service from Kitchener to Hamilton, before we can even consider running train service.

 

[Second_in_pie]

Oh, but if there was a corridor that could take trains straight from Hamilton to Cambridge and then to K-W, that'd definitely be the best. It'd provide a fast connection between Cambridge and K-W, and would probably be a more efficient corridor than going through Guelph, which is a lot more of a bedroom community than K-W, and would be connected to K-W through Georgetown line anyways.

 

[jaborandi]

This thread is set up to discuss any possible rail connction between Kitchener and Hamilton. A passenger rail connection between the two areas has long been a gap in the existing intercity passenger rail network and if filled, would greatly increase both passenger and freight mobility in Southwestern Ontario. I encourage you to submit your own ideas or challenge mine.


Here as an alignment I worked up:

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=112509077600247168599.00047bd670472376ae394&ll=43.422006,-80.190582&spn=0.744087,1.399384&t=h&z=10



One significant obstacle to this alignemnt would be going down the Niagara Escarpment, which would very possibly be the most expensive component of this project, or any project to create a higher speed rail connection between Hamilton and Kitchener.

There was once a rail line from Hamilton to Waterdown which did climb the Niagara Escarpment and I believe it continued on to Guelph. The Hamilton to Waterdown segment is still operable I believe.

Great concept!

 

[MisterF]

The obvious question: is there any chance that it will be used by more than a bus load of people?

No doubt it would. With two large urban areas so close together, both planning mass transit systems, it would be a huge success. Just look at the traffic on Highway 6 and to a lesser extent Highway 8.

I'm planning a trip to Europe right now, including travelling by train. The density of passenger train routes and the frequency of service there is astounding. This part of Ontario is probably the only region in Canada that has a similar population density as countries like Germany and could support that kind of network.

 

[RedRocket191]

There was once a rail line from Hamilton to Waterdown which did climb the Niagara Escarpment and I believe it continued on to Guelph. The Hamilton to Waterdown segment is still operable I believe.

Great concept!

All of it is still operational. Guelph to Guelph Junction is owned by the City of Guelph, and Guelph Jct to Hamilton and beyond to Welland is the CP Rail Hamilton Subdivision. The above proposal uses those rails.