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otto85b

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I’ll be moving back to Toronto in January for a co-op position, and my friend offered me a room in her place near Morningside and 401. It will be a bit of a bus ride up to Warden/Hwy 7 where I work in Markham but I can accept this since I would be living with great company and the price of the apartment is very affordable. Perhaps unjustifiably, I never feel completely safe or comfortable in most parts of Scarborough. As a white, gap wearing, ipod toting university student I seem to stand out like a sore thumb. Most younger people that I see in Scarborough seem to be dressed like "thugs" and carry themselves in a way that makes them appear as if they are angry or have something to prove. Since I don’t have a car I’ll be taking public transit everywhere and I think it might make for an unpleasant four months if I am never comfortable when I'm out and about.

I know I am not the only one who would be uncomfortable living in Scarborough.This issue has probably been discussed to death on this forum and it's potential flame bait, but I can’t find any recent threads about it. What are your honest opinions of what life at Morningside & Sheppard or Scarborough in general is like? Would you be comfortable living there? Are my fears completely unjustified?
 
I'd say unjustified.
I took the subway & LRT out to Scarborough Town Centre on Monday to see "A Nightmare Before Christmas" in 3D (it's not playing downtown). I noticed a surprising amount of kids hanging out around 2pm at Kennedy subway station (shouldn't they be in school?), but I didn't feel uncomfortable in any way. I'm a gay, casual, dress-down Gapish kind of guy myself & I have no issues about my safety out there. I grew up in Scarborough so it always feels like home whenever I get back out that way.
 
By reading your post, otto, I'm shocked at the kind of stereotype that some people have of Scarborough as a gang-infested suburban ghetto. I've been living in Scarborough for more than 10 years now, and I find that kind of stereotype to be quite untrue.

I never feel completely safe or comfortable in most parts of Scarborough.
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I agree that parts of Scarborough can be considered rough neighbourhoods (according to reports in the Star, residents in the Lawrence/Markham area hear gunshots every night), but Scarborough in general is about as safe as any other part of the city. I admit that I've seen some crazy stuff happen in Scarborough (like one time at Scarborough Centre when teens were trying to run each other over with a car in an empty parking lot), and I've personally known some victims of crimes in the area, but none of that has scared me or stopped me from going out at night.

Most younger people that I see in Scarborough seem to be dressed like "thugs" and carry themselves in a way that makes them appear as if they are angry or have something to prove.
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That's true, but again I don't see how that's different from the rest of the city (I see lots of people who are dressed like that in the Eaton Centre/Dundas Square area too). Though I find that fashion style to be odd, as long as they don't bother me, I'm fine with it.

By the way, a lot of those kids go to Catholic school, so on weekdays they have to wear uniforms.

Since I don’t have a car I’ll be taking public transit everywhere and I think it might make for an unpleasant four months if I am never comfortable when I'm out and about.
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You'll usually see the people you described taking transit from about 3:30 to 5pm, right after the end of the school day. From 4:30 onwards the majority of the transit passengers are more "properly attired" commuters from work, many coming up from downtown. You'll probably feel safer taking transit at that time.
 
You'd be more comfortable south of the 401 than north of it. As you go further east to Port Union and a bit south to Lawrence, Scarborough gets considerably whiter. Where you are now is mostly Tamil/Sri Lankan, and a bit further north you're in Asiancourt...er, I mean Agincourt.
 
Wylie,

I wouldn't say that it’s so much a fear as a sense of uneasiness in some Scarborough neighbourhoods. It's never stopped me from going there alone or at night, but when I do I feel as if I have to be extra careful not to provoke people by, for example, looking at them the wrong way.

I've seen fights erupt on buses for the most trivial reasons. For example I was on a warden bus that was pretty busy and the bus suddenly stopped so naturally people jostled around a bit. I guess one guy bumped into another guy and then suddenly they were throwing punches at each other.

I know this problem isn't unique to Scarborough and that there are some really nice neighbourhoods in Scarborough. But I've heard some bad things about the Sheppard/Morningside area – like all those Malvern Crew kids who were arrested a couple years ago, or the Morningside TTC driver who was hit by a stray bullet.

Everyone I know in scarborough has seen crazy or violent things. My friend's neighbour's house was invaded and robbed at knifepoint (although it's probable they were selling drugs). When I've lived in Waterloo, Willowdale and Markham these types of things are hardly on my mind at all and I feel completely at ease.
 
Don't move to Scarborough, it both sucks and blows.

Actually, Scarborough is massive and there's significant variation within the big neighbourhoods like Malvern, Agincourt, etc. Crime may be on the rise in some hoods like Agincourt (well, it never used to have much of any crime, so any rise is a big deal) but it's going down in Malvern...it's all cyclical, anyway. If you're worried about there being an aggressive 'white vs non-white' aura to the place, don't worry, there's no such thing. Other than Asiancourt, most if not all Scarborough neighbourhoods are mixed with all sorts of people - thugs just tend to stand out. The odds of thugs doing anything to you are one in a million.

"I never feel completely safe or comfortable in most parts of Scarborough."

I never go through Kennedy station at night anymore. But I feel safer in Scarborough than in Rexdale or Jane & Finch, that's for sure. Malvern is really not that bad and certainly safer than it used to be - I can't really comment specifically on your street and the immediate neighbourhood, but I'm quite certain that the Malvern gangs aren't that bad anymore. The 'gunshots every night' claims are always exaggerated due to defensive pride. Your friends will admit to sensationalizing their stories if prodded. Sure, their friend was beat 2 years ago and their house was robbed 3 years ago, but it's not like they walk to the bus stop every day under a hail of gunfire and have perpetual bruises all over their body.

"I'm shocked at the kind of stereotype that some people have of Scarborough as a gang-infested suburban ghetto."

It's not a stereotype.

"From 4:30 onwards the majority of the transit passengers are more "properly attired" commuters from work, many coming up from downtown."

But after 9pm or so, the commuters are done for the day and you might be on a bus with 19 other thugs. Yet, you'd be surprised how normal and even polite many of these supposed thugs are. Just cause they dress and carry themselves that way doesn't mean they're lying in wait to knife you on the bus.

If you're really concerned about being on buses in Scarborough, sit next to middle aged women. Out and about, thugs and crime are the same all over the city, but we take pride in our crime here in Scarborough. Without our stereotypes, we'd be no different than Mississauga, after all.

"You'd be more comfortable south of the 401 than north of it."

More like south of Kingston if you're really uncomfortable...although there are pockets of white people even in Agincourt.
 
... and if the middle aged woman on the bus gets nervous and moves away from you, you'll realize just how powerful a force paranoia is.
 
^ White women, maybe, but they're never on Scarborough buses.
 
I grew up in Scarborough, and I find I'm becoming more uneasy there every time I go back to visit. And it isn't racial or cultural (I live downtown, equidistant from St. James' Town, Regent Park, and the Village), it's the actual environment. It's the long stretches of sidewalk where you have six lanes of traffic on one side of you and endless parking lots on the other. It's the seedy diners and abandoned cars everywhere. It's the neglected parks and dead spaces. It's being able to walk for long periods of time without ever getting close enough to anyone to make eye contact. It's complete oblivion.

And it feels like it's getting steadily worse. Now I'm starting to stretch out the time between visits, or suggesting that people make their way downtown, anything to avoid it.
 
^ I'd like to know what part of Scarborough you're describing because none of that applies to my area...it sounds more like a single block along Lawrence. In the other 99% of the borough, there's no 6 lane roads, no abandoned cars, no seedy diners, while there are pedestrians, even at night, etc. Honestly, I feel better walking around Malvern at night than walking east of Yonge downtown at night.
 
I'm thinking specifically of the landscape along the arterials (Kingston, St. Clair, Eglinton, Lawrence, Ellesmere), which are all (with the exception of St. Clair) six lane roads, fronted almost their entire lengths with 50's era plazas, complete with their parking lots.
 
That does not describe Scarborough north of the 401 (and Ellesmere is lined with housing and some industry), but it does describe half of North York and Etobicoke; it's far from unique to Scarborough. The strip-malled concrete oblivion you speak of are quite visible, but really they describe maybe 1% of Scarborough...not that the rest is heaven, though, just less oppressive in some ways (but more oppressive in others). North Scarborough's residential areas are mostly cruel and monotonous. The area otto might move to is an almost totally different world than the Wayne's World suburbia south of the 401. Both are terrible.
 
I live in the heart of Malvern and I'm one of those youths who you might feel uncomfortable around. I just don't understand your state of mind. How can you be afraid of something or someone that hasn't caused you trouble? I find it odd that people outside of the area are more scared than those living here. Then again, it's likely you have no idea what the place is actually like.

If you are afraid then what of the immigrant women, eldery people and school children who ride the bus everyday? Chances are you will go un-noticed and unharassed during your stay. What you will see however, are those same gangsta teens offering their seats to the eldery/pregnant, helping with strollers, and assisting with directions in perhaps another language.

The best advice I can give you is don't step on anyone's shoes.

I think you'll experiece more of a culture shock when you come to terms with the vast international presence that represents the area compared to the paranoia of getting your ass kicked.
 
'urban' ware is getting out of hand.

When people 'try' to dress to look tough, then they shouldn't wonder why they get pulled over more in cars, or people feel uneasy around them. Its the image they want, so they shouldn't start crying when they get treated as such. Its like you've hurt their feelings. I typically get uncomfortable when a young person walks by with his pants half down. Other than that, for me its all good.

I've never felt unsafe in Scarbieria when I drive through it.
 
Charming as the pants-half-down look is, I'm dreading the day when it catches on with middle aged businessmen on Bay Street. Fortunately, there is always a considerable delay before a street look becomes de rigeur in the corporate world.
 
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