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izomax

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The time has come.

So much for those who say price will never fall.

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http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080814.wmls0814/BNStory/Business/home

Globe and Mail

August 14, 2008 at 5:25 PM EDT

Ontario will likely follow major cities in Western Canada into a house price decline, but while its slide should be shallower it will also be more worrisome due to the province's weaker outlook, an economist says.

Last month the average price of a resale home in Canada fell by 3.6 per cent, continuing a decline that started in June when prices lost ground for the first time in more than nine years, according to data released Thursday by the Canadian Real Estate Association (CREA).

So far the drop in average home values has mainly radiated from Calgary and Edmonton, where prices fell by 7.8 per cent and 5.3 per cent respectively in July from the year before.

But it wouldn't be surprising to see prices in these and other large Western cities slump by as much as 20 per cent in the near term, in a correction of markets that got ahead of themselves, said Benjamin Tal, senior economist at CIBC World Markets Inc.

“You don't have to be an economist to predict that prices will go down in Saskatoon and Regina, but in terms of the fundamentals, all the pieces there are still fine – a healthy economy, energy boom and rising food prices,†Mr. Tal said. “Other than people who bought last year thinking prices would keep doubling over breakfast, most people there [the Western provinces] should still end up ahead.â€

More concerning is the softening real estate market in Ontario, he added.

Hard hit by the auto sector slump, Windsor-Essex became the first major market in the province to post year-over-year house price declines. Now Toronto also appears headed for a drop, with prices rising a scant 1.5 per cent last month, while sales fell by 12.4 per cent and new listings surged by 17.8 per cent.

“The concern here is that the potential decline in Ontario would not reflect overshooting, but instead the further slowing of an economy that is probably already in recession,†Mr. Tal said.

“While I would expect a more modest drop in prices of about 5 per cent in Ontario and the GTA, prices have not risen as much here and the decline would be more painful.â€


In July the average price of an existing home fell by 3.6 per cent from the year before, building on a 0.4 per cent drop in June, according to CREA.

The average price of a Canadian resale home stood at $327,020 at the end of last month, compared with $339,277 in July, 2007.

A sharp drop in consumer sentiment helped push sales activity down 10.9 per cent from the year before, and the latest figures drive home the impact that excess supply is having on prices, Doug Porter, deputy chief economist at BMO Nesbitt Burns Inc., said in a research note.

“While we still doubt that Canada will stage an instant replay of the trauma in U.S. markets, even a mild version would be bad news,†Mr. Porter said.

Listings also remained near record levels in July, with 50,782 properties listed for sale in major markets in July. That's the second highest level on record, and down a slight 0.2 per cent from the peak hit in May.

A newcomer to the list of markets experiencing price declines was Greater Vancouver, which had a 1 per cent year-over-year to an average of $575,256 in July.

While nationwide sales levels have been edging up slightly since bottoming out in February, activity stands below the levels hit in record-breaking 2007. Sales rose by 0.1 per cent month-over-month in July to 26,033 units on a seasonally adjusted basis.

Actual sales however, at 27,889 units, were down 10.9 per cent from the year before, which was the strongest July on record.

Sales fell in Montreal, Toronto, Victoria and Ottawa compared with the month before, but rose from June levels in Edmonton, Calgary, St. John's, Saskatoon, Halifax and London, Ont. In Winnipeg, sales in July broke previous monthly records.

Listings reached their highest level on record in the country's largest market, Toronto. Listings were also near peak levels in Saskatoon, Montreal, Gatineau, Trois-Rivières, Montreal and Victoria.

The government's recent decision to crack down on mortgage lending rules has likely fed the cooling of the real estate market, helping Canada avoid a U.S.-style bubble, Mr. Tal said.

Most Canadian cities are now in, or on the cusp of, being in buyers' territory, he added.

While home prices are softening, however, this is not expected to offset rising inflation, he said.

“If food and energy continue to rise, housing will not save us,†Mr. Tal said.
 
“While I would expect a more modest drop in prices of about 5 per cent in Ontario and the GTA, prices have not risen as much here and the decline would be more painful.”

This doesn't make sense. I think they mean less painful? How can price not rise much but fall more than others? I thought it's "the taller you are the harder you fall"?
 
The GTA is in recession already. Has been for about a year. There's a reason why governments and large companies don't like to break down national stats too much. Just as Alberta's heated economy distorts Canada's figures, so do Ontario's figures get distorted by hirings outside the GTA in the 'hot' resources sector, for example.
Talk to anyone in retail to see how bad things are.
 
Prices will fall but the price has not been super inflated unlike out west.

So why would be fall harder???
 
^... According to the article, it won't fall harder, but it will feel like it as prices here have not increased as much. Bottom line is your money is safe in real estate. If you plan of buying and flipping in a years time with a profit, you're probably out of luck. But property values will always increse in the longterm. If you purchased a home to live in, don't worry as you'll ride out any softening of the market. If you purchased it as an investment, you'll just have to rent it out longer before you can turn a profit. Keep this in mind and don't get carried away by these doomsday articles as they have their own interests - sell more copies.
 
We are still increasing somewhat and then I expect it to stay flat and then slowly fall.



With prices falling, however I would expect some more buying to start though.
 
Hmmmmm

I posted this in the Cabbagetown thread.

We're moving into a condo (purchased 2 years ago) in 2 years (end of 2010, early 2011), and obviously need to pay for it by selling our house in Cabbagetown.

Everyday we're debating whether we should sell this fall, and rent for 2 years, in the case of a large depreciation. We can't handle a 20% hit (5-7 would be the absolute max, plus you have to add on inflation). It might be the safest course of action but there's lots of stress involved (having to move twice, changing business address on everything etc).

Cabbagetown has appreciated at about 4% (compounding) over the last 15 years... I don't see anything unreasonable about that.
 
Roy,

Your thinking is the same as everyone elses. That's why (as the article mentioned) that the number of new listings has increased 17.8%. The article just failed to realize why because it was written by a journalist.

Just basing your decision on an increase of new listings isn't a good reason to want to sell now. People may be putting their house on the market just out of curiousity to see if it can still sell. Others may feel as though they need to cash in now (like you have stated) to avoid loosing their "hypothetical" money they gained on their property over the years. Actually, I have learned through my experiences and others, that when it comes to real estate, jumping on the bandwagon with everyone else is always a bad idea. Many people may "think" that we are headed much lower economically than we actually are. These people might sell a lot lower than they should. That's why it is a buyers market right now. That's not a bad thing. You'll notice more buyers actually in the next few month materializing due to this fact, even though right now they don't seem to be biting, they are there... looking.

Don't forget the GTA adds as many new residents/immigrants in a year than the rest of Canada. Once Ontario's population starts to decline, then you have a real cause for concern and that -20% correction might be coming. But for now, take a deep breath and relax. Ontario may have a lot of manufacturing jobs, but last month in Ontario there was a 1.5% increase in manufacturing output. No one knows, but my prediction is that Ontario may have reached it's bottom and everything from jobs, prices, and real estate, but from this point on we should only see modest increases or decreases no higher than 3-5% (in Ontario).

My final note, is no one knows what is going to happen in the future. Just make sure the decision you make isn't based on "what you heard" or "everyone is selling". Base it on facts, facts that you researched and put together to come to a conclusion. I think you'll find Ontario over extended time periods is the most economically sound province, and you shouldn't worry.
 
Southern Ontario *

The housing market is still going extremely well in Sudbury - when there building expensive homes on rock outcrops you know the economy in this city is humming. And the same could be said for a few other places in North East.
 

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