[Eug]

According to Toronto city bylaws, semis and detached homes are allowed second suites, aka basement apartments or granny suites, etc.

To become a second suite, they must meet fire, building, and electrical code requirements, and must have a bathroom and kitchen, etc. You just have to get the appropriate inspections, and declare it as a second suite to the city (with I believe a $150 application fee). Ok fine. I wanted to add a stove to the basement, but for personal use, not as a basement apartment. I'm not Jewish, but it would be akin to the second kitchen that Jewish families and Italian families often have. Nope. That's illegal, according to Toronto zoning by-laws.

So, it's legal to have a basement apartment and that requires a kitchen, but it's illegal to have a basement with a second stove. To make it legal you actually have to declare it a multi-dwelling unit (which can impact your property taxes and will impact your home insurance), even if you want to just use it yourself for personal or religious reasons. Or you can apply to the city for a zoning variance to legally keep it a single-family home, for a $700 application fee, with no guarantee that zoning variance will be approved.

I fully understand the need for permits, which is why I'm going through all this process to do everything legally, but I'm beginning to feel more sympathy for the contractors and homeowners that try to avoid dealing with permits for certain stuff.

 

[W. K. Lis]

What if you just leave the appliance unplugged? Wouldn't that be like the rough-in's for water and sewer pipes for a future basement restroom, and future central vacuum pipes and wiring that are put in but not used.

 

[Eug]

What if you just leave the appliance unplugged? Wouldn't that be like the rough-in's for water and sewer pipes for a future basement restroom, and future central vacuum pipes and wiring that are put in but not used.

According to the city, it likely won't pass inspection, because they'll just assume I'm just gonna do it illegally later. ie. They'd tell me to rip it out before passing it, unless I have declared a multi-dwelling unit or else I have a zoning change for my individual house.

And having an disconnected stove doesn't really help me much anyway.

 

[ESPNGuy]

LOL

Who gets city permits to do work in there house, come on man

If its for personal use then do it who cares

My parents have a gas stove in the garage for making tomato suce

Yes Im a stinky Italian

 

[Eug]

Who gets city permits to do work in there house, come on man

It seems very few. Talking to some people in the industry it seems like 4/5ths of inside work is done without permits even when there should be permits (see below).

Even if I was less anal about legality, in my case I think it would have still been foolish to go without a permit, because I'm knocking down a couple of walls that have support pillars.

If its for personal use then do it who cares

My parents have a gas stove in the garage for making tomato suce

Hmm... That seems like a bad idea. Legality aside, this is one situation where an insurance company could deny them coverage after the fact, if their house burns down from the gas stove in the garage.

Do you smoke sausage in the garage too, or just hang it? Can I come over for dinner?

 

[ESPNGuy]

How did you know we smoke the sausge in the garage? Man oh man woodships in the garage smoking the sausage is key

Ironcially it was Consumers Gas to came and installed the stove in the garage , so I guess its up to code

If your doing work which results in removing major walls then I agree you have a point

For small stuff, I doubt anyone does

Most of my family has build detached garages in the backyard, green houses ,stone ovens etc
All in Scarborough too!!!

Sausage should be ready in a few months.......................

 

[W. K. Lis]

All those "single-family" homes zoned that way in the suburbs, most likely have basement apartments. Most likely occupied by "relatives". Helps to pay the mortgage.

 

[cdr108]

How did you know we smoke the sausge in the garage? Man oh man woodships in the garage smoking the sausage is key

Ironcially it was Consumers Gas to came and installed the stove in the garage , so I guess its up to code

If your doing work which results in removing major walls then I agree you have a point

For small stuff, I doubt anyone does

Most of my family has build detached garages in the backyard, green houses ,stone ovens etc
All in Scarborough too!!!

Sausage should be ready in a few months.......................

summer italian banquet at ESPNGuy family's place !

 

[Eug]

So I applied for a zoning variance, and the city mailed letters to all my neighbours. They also told me to put this humungous sign in my window, a sign that's about 3 times the size of a building permit.

One family objected to my zoning variance application, so I knocked on their door and discussed it. It turns they had a misunderstanding of the request for zoning variance and my request and seemed reassured somewhat by the discussion.

I have to go up in front of the city soon. Hopefully the misunderstanding with the neighbour doesn't colour the view of those making the decision. The other neighbours don't care at all, and actually came up to tell me they were quite shocked that it was the city's (or their) business in the first place.

So far I'm optimistic, but I've heard horror stories for benign things getting blocked for no apparent good reason, so we'll just have to see.

P.S. I didn't tell you about my other issue. I got the permit (sans stove), but contingent on HVAC design approval. Except the HVAC system was already built, and approved by permit years ago. However, it was by the previous owner, and the documents are purged by the city after 7 years, so they had no record of it. Thus, in order to get the permit fully in order I had to go hire someone to basically map out the existing design. I guess the silver lining (if you can call it that) was that since he was doing the drawings anyway I had him change a few things for a new design just to make the room space a bit more usable.

So, all in all, the permit stuff is probably going to add a 4-digit amount to the reno, just for the applications.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I just hope you have no upset some neighbour with your dog, cat, choice of music, choice of house paint, choice of friends, dumping of snow, leaves blowing on their lawn, shadow, accidental nakedness, cooking odors, mowing lawn on Sunday morning, mowing lawn on Saturday morning, duct cleaning, your kids stepping on their lawn, ball playing, ignoring their hello, your car idling, you complaining about their car,...

 

[Eug]

How about intentional nakedness?

I'll just say that so far this experience has been an interesting one.

 

[Eug]

So the zoning variance was approved (a little while back), so I'm the only home in the neighbourhood AFAIK that is legally allowed to have a kitchen in the basement. It added about 2 months a 4 digit $ cost (and a lot of anguish) to my reno.

 

[Eug]

Additional pain.

1) The building inspector that came gave my contractor a very hard time about the choice of materials for the reno. It turned out the contractor was correct and the inspector was wrong. However, the process to get this sorted out added a few more gray hairs to my head.

2) The property assessment was re-triggered. Now comes the wait for the new assessment figure.

 

[Eug]

2) The property assessment was re-triggered. Now comes the wait for the new assessment figure.

No final number yet, but they think the property assessment may go up around 25%.

I supppose I shouldn't complain too much though, as it's been grossly undervalued ever since I moved in, and for some reason they didn't do a complete reassessment when I bought the place years ago. I guess the free ride is over...

 

[terrencemorgan]

I agree with you completely

read this:
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...er_court_order_to_demolish_home_addition.html

this is how the city is wasting $500000 of tax dollars.

then they turn around tell us we need a permit. Why? so they can hassle, after I pay them my taxes? Pay you to harass me? About what I do in my own house?

No final number yet, but they think the property assessment may go up around 25%.

I supppose I shouldn't complain too much though, as it's been grossly undervalued ever since I moved in, and for some reason they didn't do a complete reassessment when I bought the place years ago. I guess the free ride is over...