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unimaginative2

unimaginative2

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I was posting on regional rail in the other thread, and I realize that one of the limitations of the existing regional rail system is that it doesn't really do a very good job of serving areas away from Union Station. I was thinking that a way to remedy that would be a core area ring line, sort of on the Berlin model. It would use the existing downtown rail lines: the Lakeshore route west from Union to Liberty Village, then up the Weston Sub (GO Georgetown, Bradford and Milton lines) and then along the Bradford line alone to the Junction, then along the CP North Toronto line and back down the Don Valley (the Richmond Hill line) to the Lakeshore. I'd like to see it designed so that all routes can use the loop, including trains on the Lakeshore line that could bypass downtown. It would connect with the existing subway at Union, Lansdowne or Dundas West, Dupont, Summerhill and Broadview.

It would require a few major works, in addition to obviously providing dedicated double track along the entire route. The connection from the Bradford line to the North Toronto sub would be somewhat challenging challenging. An alternative would be to use the Weston sub, which while somewhat longer and equally challenging would mean a more useful subway connection at Dundas West rather than Lansdowne. The connection at Broadview would be accomplished with either elevators, as at Covent Garden or Cité, or a series of escalators, as at Westminster. Trains would use the CP route that diverges from the Richmond Hill line around Pottery Road. This would be the only really challenging section, requiring trains to run either through Moore Park Ravine and then climb to join the North Toronto sub, or take a bit of a detour around the Governors Bridge subdivision, possibly costing a few houses. I'd say the former makes more sense, though the disruption to the ravine is obviously an issue. Southbound trains from Richmond Hill would use the old Leaside spur.

Routing trains coming from the west and east along Lakeshore to the north at Liberty Village and the West Don Lands would be challenging. The former in particular might require a short tunnel. This would require further study to determine if it is justified.

On the whole, the project wouldn't cost a fortune and would significantly improve the distribution of regional rail riders around the city.
 
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It would be good to see an east-west link across midtown ... but I thought the general conclusion was that circular or ring lines just are too hard operationally to work. Even in London they are stopping the operation of the Circle Line after many decades - as a circle at least (all services counter-clockwise will stop at Edgware Road, and clockwise will stop run to Hammersmith, diverting off the current Circle Line at Edgware Road).
 
They're more common in regional rail systems, and it seems to work very well in Berlin. You're right that a line across North Toronto is the first priority since it'll open up the whole central and northern part of the city.
 
If there is room to build a station and platforms on the CP line just north of Dupont, it may make sense for some GO routes to terminate on the CP line at a station at Casa Loma and/or Summerhill instead of at Union.

I can only see commuter rail along the CP line if GO can manage to buy the CP line between the junction and Don Mills. A rail allowance for CP would be needed for freight long the CN York sub for CP trains, the track would have to be dually owned by both CN and CP. It would also might be beneficial to build a new rail line south of the 407, effectively allowing CP trains to bypass Toronto altogether.

You would also run into problems building a station on the CP line, due to the elevated nature of the line and proximity to a hydro ROW.

I'm not saying that there should not be GO service on the CP line, I'm just saying there are a lot of challenges that need to be overcome before it becomes possible.
 
Service on the North Toronto Sub has actually been planned for years, and it's in Metrolinx's plan. Getting CP to give up the route is one alternative, while adding an additional two tracks for dedicated passenger service is another. I suspect that the latter would be more cost-effective and an easier sell to CP.
 
unimaginative2 said:
They're more common in regional rail systems, and it seems to work very well in Berlin. You're right that a line across North Toronto is the first priority since it'll open up the whole central and northern part of the city.
Click to expand...

And they even exist, or have existed, on some bus networks--I remember getting my kicks out of taking the Calgary "circle line" for its full circuit back in 1994/5, though I don't know who else would have been daft enough to do so...
 
This is where the old GO ALRT proposal would have been far superior to what we have now - the northern line would have effectively created a circle route around Toronto and help build ridership between the suburbs. GO would have been a far more regional system than a suburb-to-downtown one.

But then again, it might have shut down every time it snowed.
 
299 bloor call control. said:
This is where the old GO ALRT proposal would have been far superior to what we have now - the northern line would have effectively created a circle route around Toronto and help build ridership between the suburbs. GO would have been a far more regional system than a suburb-to-downtown one.
Click to expand...
This needs to come back in some form. The 401 REX line Metrolinx talked about during the RTP process would have accomplished that, but it seems to have been totally dropped. Sad, because it is probably the single highest value thing we could do. Of course, it was probably also the single most expensive thing we could do.
 
adma said:
And they even exist, or have existed, on some bus networks--I remember getting my kicks out of taking the Calgary "circle line" for its full circuit back in 1994/5, though I don't know who else would have been daft enough to do so...
Click to expand...

In St. John's, many of the bus routes are circle routes. It's something I found out the hard way when I was touring Newfoundland a few years ago.
 
DavidH said:
This needs to come back in some form. The 401 REX line Metrolinx talked about during the RTP process would have accomplished that, but it seems to have been totally dropped. Sad, because it is probably the single highest value thing we could do. Of course, it was probably also the single most expensive thing we could do.
Click to expand...

I think it's still possible - not using the 401 corridor, but using the Finch Hydro corridor for rapid east-west transit through the north of the city.
 
299 bloor call control. said:
I think it's still possible - not using the 401 corridor, but using the Finch Hydro corridor for rapid east-west transit through the north of the city.
Click to expand...
True, but the fact that it's not in the RTP in any form means that it will be hard for anyone to get traction on it - unless the province decides it's a good idea and orders Metrolinx to amend the RTP (possible under the new legislation).
 
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