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screenplaying

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A lesson and cautionary tale for everyone here... and witten in the hope that Ted Rogers gets a severe migraine for pissing me off enough to write about it. Hi Ted!!

Readers might need a small backgrounder on how I got to this 'learned' spot... Over the past year I have voluntarily taken a giant cash flow hit. I accepted a job in a start-up law firm which allows me to financially get by 'uncomfortably', until files mature to the 'comfortable' point. In the mean time I carry a bunch of debt balance from credit cards to credit line to overdraft. I pay a ton of interest and depending on when I get paid, it is possible that I fall behind.

About half a year ago I switched from Bell to Rogers Home phone. Two reasons... I already had Rogers high-speed internet and they were advertising cheaper phone service and a combined bill. I figured I could save a few bucks and have one less bill to worry about. So I jumped. There was also the great idea of not being sent a paper bill (a smart 'green' initiative and cost-saving/profit move by Teddy Rogers). I pay online directly from my bank account anyway. Looking back, it was an ominous sign when they screwed up the initial installation, leaving me without phone service or building intercom for a week (a tech and manager had to finally come by to figure out that the previous tech had crossed the wall wiring - I won't dwell on how safe that might have or have not been).

Anyway, I was already carrying a balance with Rogers of probably a couple hundred bucks. As with my credit cards and stuff I've been paying down what I can, when I can. With Rogers though, I always seemed to owe more and more, never paying it down enough (their collection agengy division is another story). I thought I had a sense of what the monthly service was costing me. I eventually called them to change the level of my internet service plan thinking the 5-10 bucks a month drop would help. Nope. After making a $160 payment yesterday I went online this morning to look closely at the 4 consolidated bills available to me and what my oustanding balance would be. I noticed an added charge on each of them...

October
Reactivation $25.00
Late payment charge 4.96
Net account level charges & credits $29.96
G.S.T. (#86239 5381) 1.50
P.S.T. 2.00
Total $33.46

November
Reactivation $25.00
Late payment charge 3.95
Net account level charges & credits $28.95
G.S.T. (#86239 5381) 1.50
P.S.T. 2.00
Total $32.45

December
(apparently waived at some point)
Late payment charge $6.20
Net account level charges & credits $6.20
Total $6.20

January
Reactivation $25.00
Late payment charge 5.15
Net account level charges & credits $30.15
G.S.T. (#86239 5381) 1.25
P.S.T. 2.00
Total $33.40

Here's the head scratcher... My internet and phone service (I don't subscribe to cable) HAS NEVER BEEN CUT OFF. I have never had a service disruption.

So I made a call and spoke and vented to about 5 people. Up the chain of command until I ran into the final gatekeeper before Ted would have to answer the phone. SOZAN 624110. They don't give out last names for security reasons, so the last lady to speak to me is safe. My conversations with the Rogers employees led me to learn that...

My account was 'suspended' on at least 2-3 other occassion before these last 4 bills. I will probably be 'suspended' again next month.

"What the %#^@ does 'suspended' mean???" I incredulously asked each employee. The answer is, drum roll... "if you have an outstanding balance we cut off your long distance service". Flick of a button, I'm sure. It was nice to learn this since the only long distance calls I ever make or care to make are from work. Once again... MY INTERNET ACCESS AND PHONE HAVE NEVER BEEN CUT OFF. But I've apparently been suspended about 6 times in the last year. Now I know what you're thinking because I was thinking it... well isn't it one suspension until you pay it all off? Um, Nope. If you pay more than half your outstanding amount, the suspension is lifted... until the next bill... and then um, you're resuspended. I have to applaud the guy I spoke to before SOZAN said 'goodbye' to me in her special way. He at least understood my logic when I suggested that according to this scam-achoo (sorry, weird sneeze)... not paying my bill at all until they fully disconnect me would actually save me 35 bucks a month. He even offered to waive one of the months (SOZAN wasn't as kind) after that line. I had also pissed off the gentlemen by suggesting this 'interest' rate was criminal. It turns out that the 27% "payment charge" (before the suspension fee) is NOT and should NOT be referred to as interest since Rogers is not a credit card company. Something like that. To bad I quit smoking weed long ago, because I might have understood the argument.

It was also news to me that they can't just cut off your service because that's a harder and longer process. The line used was "we can't just cut you off from the world of information". I almost gagged.

I'm out of options. Until I pay off the remainder to zero, I'm gonna keep getting ridiculous monthly charges. I can't imagine how many people out there have these charges buried into their bill without them knowing. Rogers will ding you if you're not paid off in full.

If Bell needs a way to lure back customers, voila. Although I wouldn't trust that corporation to not just copycat the business idea themselves instead. This is nothing more than big business raping the little guy (anyone aware of the UPS Class Action lawsuit in regards to brokerage charges?). They do it until someone stands up to them and then they settle for a few bucks, profiting huge in the meantime.

In no way am I looking for sympathy. Just be aware. Oh and a hello to you too SOZAN 624110! You should end your phone calls with "Resistance Is Futile"
 
An addendum. I picked up a newspaper tonight and whadda ya know... Bell has been running the same scam with their satellite service!

I think I understand Paul's anger. So UPS and Bell seem to have been served in court. If anyone can point me to a legal team that wants to play ball against Ted (in honour of the SkyDome), please let me know.

Class-action allowed against fee

ONTARIO SUPERIOR COURT

Class-action allowed against fee
Customer saw red over Bell ExpressVu's $19 administration charge
PAUL WALDIE

February 15, 2008

Peter De Wolf has been a loyal Bell ExpressVu customer for years but when he was hit with a $19 administrative charge for failing to pay his monthly bill on time, he balked.

First, he took the company to small-claims court near his home in Braeside, Ont., near Ottawa. Then he launched a class action lawsuit in Toronto on behalf of Bell ExpressVu's 1.7 million customers nationwide, alleging the administrative fee amounted to an illegal interest rate.

Now, after nearly three years of legal wrangling, Mr. De Wolf has scored a key victory. In a decision made public this week, an Ontario Superior Court judge certified the lawsuit as a class action and criticized Bell ExpressVu for raising "straw man" arguments to block the suit.

"We're very, very glad that after 2½ years, basically, to see it finally moving ahead," said Mr. De Wolf, 54, who works as a journalist for a group of weekly newspapers in Arnprior, Ont. "It's a huge step forward."

Mark Langton, a Bell Canada spokesman, said the company views the case "as completely without merit." He added that Bell ExpressVu will be pushing for the case to be dismissed at a forthcoming hearing.

The saga began in the summer of 2004 when Mr. De Wolf received his regular monthly bill, around $50, from Bell ExpressVu for his satellite television service. He was about to go away on holiday for a month and put the bill aside. Shortly after his return, he received another bill that included a 2 per cent interest charge on the outstanding amount plus a $19 administration fee.

"I called them and said, 'I'm not paying the $19 fee,' " he recalled yesterday. He refused to pay for the next four months, piling up about $100 worth of administrative charges and interest. When Bell ExpressVu threatened to cut off his service, Mr. De Wolf paid and then filed a lawsuit in small-claims court seeking $7,700 in damages.

Mr. De Wolf withdrew the lawsuit and took the case to a Toronto law firm that specializes in class actions. The proposed class action was launched in September, 2005.

In the suit, Mr. De Wolf alleged the monthly administrative fee coupled with interest charges was illegal. He alleged the two together meant that Bell ExpressVu was charging more than 60 per cent in annual interest, which violated the Criminal Code. According to court filings, about 33,000 ExpressVu customers are charged the administrative fee each month. The fee has since been raised to $25.

Bell ExpressVu argued the fee was not an interest charge but was based on the cost the company incurred collecting overdue bills. The company also argued the class action shouldn't proceed because each customer has a different account and incurs different fees. In general, allegations in class actions must apply to all potential defendants in order to proceed to trial.

Mr. Justice Paul Perell rejected the company's arguments and certified the case.

Judge Perell said Mr. De Wolf had demonstrated that there were enough common issues for all ExpressVu customers.

Mr. De Wolf said he was pleased with the ruling and he is looking forward to the next round in the legal battle, which comes in April with a hearing on legal motions. For now, though, he remains a loyal Bell ExpressVu customer. And his monthly account is fully paid.
 
That's what happens when we have a duopoly here in Canada. We don't have a choice here in Canada so thats the kind of crap we have to put up with.

I'm waiting for the case against the wireless companies to stop charging the $6.95 system bullshit fee.
 
Keep in mind that we're protecting Canadian culture and jobs by banning foreigners from setting up business up here. Paying a small bullshit fee every month beats the hell out of having a better service at a lower price if it means that profits stay in Canada :)
 
Thanks for the smile Blixtein. :)

I think Canadians need to hear about an old Rogers story again. A York U law professor, Susan Drummond, went through hell a couple years ago and did a lot of work to preserve the story for us. CBC coverage on the front page:

http://www.rogersandme.ca/

The link on the above page will get you to the detailed story.

All the media coverage, from articles to cartoons, is collected here:

http://www.rogersandme.ca/story.html

My understanding is that Ms. Drummond pursued this matter in small claims court and although she received a settlement, the venue limited her in how much she could actually recover towards the outstanding account with Rogers.

Is it time to move up in the lawsuit world, Ted?

If you're willing, we can meet up at any Timmy's in the GTA for coffee (since you're not a tea fan). Your choice of location, and feel free to bring SOZAN 624110 with you. I'll get a reporter to tag along and we'll make it a group date!
 
screenplaying, it won't get you your money back, but you can take consolation that nearly all Canadians, from Bonavista to Vancouver Island, are united in their hatred for Rogers.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say anything positive about their customer service, but I have heard quite a few horror stories.
 
screenplaying, it won't get you your money back, but you can take consolation that nearly all Canadians, from Bonavista to Vancouver Island, are united in their hatred for Rogers.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say anything positive about their customer service, but I have heard quite a few horror stories.

I'm getting the same sense from everyone I talk to. It's also my understanding that Rogers is well-known and hated in the small claims arena. There's an avalanche of badwill across Canada waiting for a legal quake.

A co-worker showed me her Rogers bill today (along with sharing a Rogers mobile horor story rant, which I countered with a Rogers hi-speed modem horror story, and then we traded Rogers 'collection department' laughs - see mine below). She also said that she's been 'suspended' a few times, but wasn't aware that a fee applied. That's why I 100% agree with officedweller's comment. The one-bill makes them money under the guise of conveniencing us and saving the environment. :rolleyes:

Well Ted, send me a paper bill from now on because I'm gonna get rid of a whack of junkmail... which should leave me more room for your personalized-to-me propaganda.

My co-worker luckily only paid $250 of her recent $700 bill which probably doesn't warrant a 'reconnect' fee this month. She's currently searching through old bills in the hope that she can join in on any future Rogers 'pay-back'. In the meantime, here's a reconstructed collections department conversation (they can call daily, so just take this as 1/100th of what gets asked, said, and left on your voicemail from various private numbers)...


Collections Department (Feb 9th - Sat morning): "When will you be making payment?"
Screenplaying: "I get paid next Friday, Feb 15th"
Collections Department (Feb 9th - Sat morning): "So by the 16th?"
Screenplaying: "Sure"
Collections Department (Feb 9th - Sat morning): "How much will you be paying"
Screenplaying: "A good chunk, not sure exactly"
Collections Department (Feb 9th - Sat morning): "How will you be making payment?"
Screenplaying: "Bank machine or online."
...
Collections Department (Feb 12th): "When will you be making payment?"
Screenplaying: "I thought I already said I was paying by the 16th!??"
Collections Department (Feb 12th): "Yes, but it takes a few days for your payment to clear..."
Screenplaying: "How the %#@$ does that change 'I'm making a payment by the 16th??... since I get paid on Friday'???"
Collections Department (Feb 12th): "Well I'm just a babbling irritant that is concerned about you not paying your bill on time... in order to avoid the 27% 'credit-level-but-in-no-way-interest-charge'... since you're obviously already paying our 200%-you're-an-idiot surcharge... which I won't bother explaining to you, because they don't tell me much about that Ted Rogers law-skirting tribute payment either."
 
I think that Rogers is fantastic. I've had major customer service issues with Bell in the past, and have had to put up with poor wireless coverage for the past 2 years.

On the other hand, I never have to wait more than a few minutes with Rogers customer service, and it seems like they are available 24/7. The one time I had a dispute on my Rogers bill, they waived the charged without hassle. Free calling to all Rogers and Fido numbers from Rogers Home Phone suits me very well. Cell coverage is fantastic, though the internet does seem to have slowed a bit lately and the cost of an HD PVR is getting rather pricey.

Moral of the story is pay your bills on time. If you can't pay your bills, downsize before things get out of hand.
 
The state of the communications industry in canada is absolutely atrocious. Bottom line, Canadian consumers are taking is up the ***.

We have the collusion in the cellular industry (ie all carriers simultaneously switching to per minute billing, pushing back unlimited nights, etc etc), smaller competitors being swallowed up as soon as they become competitive (read: fido & rogers), the complete SCAM of a system access fee, and the CRTC's refusal to let competitors in.

And we have the duopoly that is Rogers and Bell, who monopolize the internet and tv business and do all they can to force competitors out.

It's truly a disgrace.

On the other hand, one thing we do have some competition in is VOIP providers. Don't even consider going with rogers home phone as they are a huge rip off... there are tons of competitors charging much less and offering much more.
 
I wonder how long it'll be before the VOIP companies are bought out by the big 2.

By the way take a look at this company for your DSL needs, very highly rated on dslreports.com

www.teksavvy.com
 
I wonder how long it'll be before the VOIP companies are bought out by the big 2.

By the way take a look at this company for your DSL needs, very highly rated on dslreports.com

www.teksavvy.com

Because of the open nature of VOIP there will always be hundreds of options. The big 2 couldn't possibly buy them all up. in fact there's nothing stopping you from signing up with a voip provider from a whole other country... other than the fact that you might not get a local number...
 

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