[idesignb4]

This is my first thread. Apparently, St. Lawrence Market made it into the top 25 city markets in the world (according to "Food and Wine," I believe). Why not establish "satelite" St. Lawrence markets, in North York, Etobicoke, etc? I'm sure the increasing populations of these neighbourhoods could support them. They would provide nice alternatives to the Loblawses and Dominions, injecting a little variety into common, supermarket fare, and a little urbanity. They could also become architectural / community / cultural focal points, just like St. Lawrence "Central," in parts of the city where there seem to be so few. Thoughts?

 

[miketoronto]

Can't be done. North York, etc already have little farmers markets.

But a place like St Lawrence Market only has the selection and vibrancy it has, because it is central and a metropolitan wide draw.

You can't have markets with was much things, when they serve smaller local markets.

St Lawrence Market is not that far. At most, it is 30min drive from the farthest point in the City of Toronto.
If people want the market, they can come to the two big ones(Kenzington and St Lawrence).

The little farmer markets are good local markets in the suburbs.

But a central market like St Lawrence Market belongs downtown.

 

[wyliepoon]

I think it can be done.

I think there is a misconception between "farmer's market" and the market we're talking about here. A farmer's market only sells produce, and sometimes other foods. The market we're talking about here is a cross between a "farmer's market" and a "flea market"- markets that sell not only food (including meats and seafood), but also other items such as household goods, flowers, etc. St. Lawrence Market doesn't sell food only, does it?

I think markets are probably one of the best ways that we can have to counter the monopoly that big companies have in the suburbs (as you've mentioned idesignb4), and also the domination by malls and chain stores. Markets encourage people to become entrepreneurs and start small businesses, and having them grouped together in one location, they can help support each other.

I also agree with idesignb4 that markets help add urbanity where there was none before. If developers see markets at the same level as malls, they will build condos around them. Popular markets might even encourage the TTC to extend rapid transit lines. If an ethnic group dominate a market, it would encourage development of ethnic neighbourhoods.

There are examples in the world where this has worked. Montreal's Jean-Talon Market and Atwater Market seem to work really well (Atwater being an art deco landmark in Montreal). In Hong Kong, public housing developments all have markets in the centre (if you've been watching news on the bird flu in HK you might have seen pictures of HK markets on TV). Although they are way grimier than supermarkets, a lot of people, especially old people who still want to shop the old way, still go there to buy their groceries.

 

[Jarrek]

It certainly CAN be done. To say it can't - would be very narrow minded. Mississauga already has a Sunday morning farmers market that uses one of the Square One Parking lots as it's location. The next step would be to create some sort of permament city centre structure for the market.

 

[ecsider]

There is a difference between the St.Lawrence Market and a regular farmer's market. Nathan Phillips square has them during the summer as well. There's also the food terminal out in the west-end. Both are considered "markets". But they don't compare in quality, variety and history/setting like the St. Lawrence.

There's nothing wrong with having "markets" all over the city. Just don't spread The St. Lawrence name or "brand" around or risk diluting its image and quality. IMO, there should only be one.

 

[sleeksky]

I don't think there is any reason at all why suburbs can't have their own markets. A place to sell fresh produce, meat, cheese, bread, plus more local items. A lot of municipalities have farmers markets, often on weekends, so this could easily be expanded upon. Believe it or not, but many of the suburbs are still very close to agricultural land producing a wonderful array of foods.

 

[idesignb4]

I think markets are probably one of the best ways that we can have to counter the monopoly that big companies have in the suburbs (as you've mentioned idesignb4), and also the domination by malls and chain stores. Markets encourage people to become entrepreneurs and start small businesses, and having them grouped together in one location, they can help support each other.

I read an article a while back in the Globe about the Pacific Mall, a Chinese-community mall somewhere on Steeles, I think. From what I can remember, the building is designed to be nothing more than a shell, allowing for maximum flexibility for merchants, big and small, to sell all kinds of products and services. Apparently, its become a real meeting place for the suburban Chinese community in the GTA. So maybe a satelite St. Lawrence Market already exists. The only thing is, externally, its quite suburban and nothing much to look at. On the other hand, I read an article in 'Canadian Architect' about a Chinese Mall in Vancouver (Surrey, I believe) that is actually quite cool on the outside, with multi-coloured glass. Inside it has a bunch of funky chain-stores from Asia and a large, Loblaws-style Chinese supermarket. But, it is a mall, not a market, which is what I'm proposing. Can the two forms be merged? If anyone has more info about the whole phenomenon of Chinese or ethnic malls in Canada, please post.

 

[wyliepoon]

I read an article in 'Canadian Architect' about a Chinese Mall in Vancouver (Surrey, I believe) that is actually quite cool on the outside, with multi-coloured glass. Inside it has a bunch of funky chain-stores from Asia and a large, Loblaws-style Chinese supermarket.

You must be talking about the Aberdeen Centre. It's in Richmond, not Surrey.

The new Aberdeen Centre (it replaced an older Chinese mall) was designed by Bing Thom (also did Surrey Central City, see other thread in this section). It's owned by the Fairchild Group, which has a Toronto connection since they also own Fairchild TV (the all-Chinese TV station) and Fairchild Radio (a multicultural radio station).

Website: www.aberdeencentre.com

But there are more urbanized examples of Chinese malls in Canada, and you don't have to go all the way to Vancouver to see them. Right in our Chinatown are two big malls which really fit into the urban context: Dragon City (Dundas and Spadina, with the jumbotron) and Chinatown Centre (just south of Dragon City on Spadina). Both are large shopping complexes with what I think are rental appartments above. They are like the Eaton Centres of Chinatown, except they don't really take people off the streets.

In Scarborough we have the Oriental Centre, which is a three-storey complex of shops and offices, all packed into a tiny site with underground parking. It is one neat alternative to the big boxes and strip malls that you see all over Scarborough.

Website: www.orientalcentre.ca

I never thought of Chinese malls as being close to the "market" that you're proposing, idesignb4. The closest thing to a market in a Chinese mall in Toronto would be the Heritage Town at Pacific Mall (www.pacificmalltoronto.com/en/heritagetown/). However, considering the passion Chinese people have for bustling marketplaces (check out Chinatown on weekends, or go to the annual Chinese New Year celebrations in Toronto), I'd say creating a Chinese marketplace in Toronto isn't that hard.

Good thinking!