[wyliepoon]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/631650

Next issue for TTC: How to tell who's paid

Tess Kalinowski
TRANSPORTATION REPORTER

And how will you be paying for that streetcar ride?

As the city and province squabble about funding 204 new Toronto streetcars, the TTC is grappling with how to design a proof-of-payment system for the vehicles it wants to order from Bombardier.

A proof-of-payment system allows the cars to board passengers more quickly by using all four doors available on the new streetcars on 11 busy transit routes.

With tens of thousands of riders boarding for relatively short hops, the answer may be more complex than simply adopting the GO Transit model: an honour system, with random checks by fare enforcement officers.

Nobody's even sure what kind of payment will be accepted on the TTC when the new cars starting hitting the streets, perhaps in 2012.

The TTC is investigating electronic payment options, including using the new chips in credit cards and the region's Presto fare card. But electronic payment probably won't be fully operational until the middle of the next decade.

Streetcars on the Queen St., Queensway and Lake Shore Blvd. route already use a proof-of-payment system to get people onto the cars faster during busy periods. Riders with a valid transfer or Metropass can use the back door. Those using a ticket or token have to board at the front and get a receipt from the driver in case they are randomly checked by a TTC special constable.

Between 2004 and 2008, only 726 charges were issued for fare-related transgressions.

But how will that system hold up once the driver is sequestered in a separate compartment at the front of the new streetcars, no longer monitoring the fare box?

One possibility is installing machines that issue paper receipts in exchange for tokens or tickets, says TTC chair Adam Giambrone.

 

[autopilot]

the reason so few charges were laid is because it isn't being enforced.

 

[xtremesniper]

I would say "take Viva as an example" but I personally don't think that the Viva fare enforcement is frequent enough to make a difference. While I'm sure at least 75-80% of Viva riders pay for their ride all the time (I see a whole lot of people validating tickets), I do know that a lot of stupid teens like to ride the "Freeva", as they call it. But I figure as long as the majority are paying, the service will be fine. If anything, it gets more cars off the road one way or another... even if it means losing some money in the beginning.

And the TTC really needs to get off their lazy asses and approve of Presto or some sort of electronic payment system. The fact that its taking this long to "look into it" is ridiculous.

 

[Chuck]

Until Toronto adapts a more modern fare system:

Why not make Transit City free, but eliminate free transfers to the rest of the TTC system? If your trip started on a bus, normal streetcar, or on the subway, you've already paid your TTC fare and you just hop onto the Transit City vehicle for free. No problems there.

If your trip starts on a Transit City route, you board for free, but have to pay to get onto the subway or to board a connecting bus route. The Transit City unloading platform within subway stations could be fully enclosed, forcing you to enter the rest of the platform through a normal turnstile. There could be one TTC employee per entrance to accept paper transfers.

This would use the status quo, outdated fare system, but buys the TTC a few extra years to implement a new GTA wide fare system.

 

[EnviroTO]

I wouldn't be surprised if the fare system used involves people working overtime to sit on a chair near a coin jar at every stop while not really paying attention to how much people are putting in the jar.

 

[urbanfan89]

I wouldn't be surprised if the fare system used involves people working overtime to sit on a chair near a coin jar at every stop while not really paying attention to how much people are putting in the jar.

Isn't that what happens now already?

 

[xtremesniper]

Until Toronto adapts a more modern fare system:

Why not make Transit City free, but eliminate free transfers to the rest of the TTC system? If your trip started on a bus, normal streetcar, or on the subway, you've already paid your TTC fare and you just hop onto the Transit City vehicle for free. No problems there.

If your trip starts on a Transit City route, you board for free, but have to pay to get onto the subway or to board a connecting bus route. The Transit City unloading platform within subway stations could be fully enclosed, forcing you to enter the rest of the platform through a normal turnstile. There could be one TTC employee per entrance to accept paper transfers.

This would use the status quo, outdated fare system, but buys the TTC a few extra years to implement a new GTA wide fare system.

I agree, but try to convince our politicians that the option of ... free *GASP* transit rides might lure more ridership into the actual paid portions of the system.

Isn't that what happens now already?

I believe that's what he was sarcastically implying.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Hire psychics are special constables. But you knew someone would eventually say that.

 

[wyliepoon]

I wouldn't be surprised if the fare system used involves people working overtime to sit on a chair near a coin jar at every stop while not really paying attention to how much people are putting in the jar.

There's already a TTC guy at the Dundas northbound stop on the Spadina LRT who lets passengers with passes and transfers on at the back door. It might sound ridiculous, but we might have to hire hundreds of these pass-inspectors to man the busier Transit City stops, one for each door on the new LRVs.

 

[urbanfan89]

It might sound ridiculous, but we might have to hire hundreds of these pass-inspectors to man the busier Transit City stops, one for each door on the new LRVs.

Yes, but *gasp* you'll be forcing them to walk around the system constantly boarding and leaving the buses and trains! All for a measly salary of $25/hour! This is outrageous!

 

[wyliepoon]

^ The inspector at Dundas/Spadina stays at the stop and doesn't get onto the streetcar. He just stands by the rear door and checks passes and transfers (and calls out to the driver to close the rear doors when loading is done). Sometimes he even brings a stool to sit on while waiting for the next streetcar to arrive.

A static inspector would make the $25/hr sound even more outrageous!

 

[kettal]

For the busiest stations, that makes sense.

There's also nothing wrong with a machine that prints receipts in the streetcars.

 

[Tuscani01]

Not every station needs to be manned. Hire a few people (10 or so) to check for POP and allow them to move around through the entire system. Make the fines for fare evasion high, and rely on the money brought in from fines to subsidize the money lost from fare evasion elsewhere.

Catching one person and giving them a $200 fine can cover 72 fares. Increase the number of people caught and im sure it will more than make up for the amount of people evading. If Translink in B.C can do it, so can we.

As for POP, the buses in Vancouver spit out a POP/Transfer card from the fare box. All the TTC would have to do is ensure that all the new LRT vehicles come with that type of fare box.

 

[Tza]

I agree with Tuscani as the best way is to give stiff fines so that you eventually instill fear into the majority of riders so they do not even think to try to jump on. It sets a precedence by making examples out of the first offenders.

As for Translink in BC, that is bad example as people ride for free all the time with no worries of being caught including myself (which I am NOT proud of). When I lived in Vancouver years back and had no money I got by without a transit pass for a whole 2 months. It just meant I could not take a bus which was no big problem.

 

[Tuscani01]

I agree with Tuscani as the best way is to give stiff fines so that you eventually instill fear into the majority of riders so they do not even think to try to jump on. It sets a precedence by making examples out of the first offenders.

As for Translink in BC, that is bad example as people ride for free all the time with no worries of being caught including myself (which I am NOT proud of). When I lived in Vancouver years back and had no money I got by without a transit pass for a whole 2 months. It just meant I could not take a bus which was no big problem.

Well, the Translink system is fine... its just enforcement that is not. I was checked once for POP, and that was on the way back from North Vancouver via the Seabus. The funny thing is the dude checking for POP wasn't even in the fare paid area. He was standing outside of the station. Had I not had a fare, I could have simply said I wasn't going to use the seabus and he wouldn't be able to do anything about it.