The lights, the new paving stones, and maybe more will be part of the holistic effort. I assume a big post-construction site cleaning is to come.

I look forward to learning more about this work. The first views here elicited some fairly delighted laughs from me. We have an elemental notion of home here 'carved out' of even more elemental erratic boulders, all in an hyper-artificial setting. The Under-the-Gardiner art stroll from Fort York to Portland Street should be an unique and interesting feature of the area when the last buildings have gone in.

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interchange42 said:
The lights, the new paving stones, and maybe more will be part of the holistic effort. I assume a big post-construction site cleaning is to come.
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Yes, but to what end? (Other than a vague goal such as "to make it more people-friendly", which at this point is just a platitude.) Looking at it, there seems to be no coherent vision. You can add "things" like paving and lights and an artwork but it's just "parts". That's not how you design a quality public space.

Looking at it, I don't see a coherent idea for what this space is supposed to be and how people will use it.

I really wish this city left less to developers as small piece-meal projects and instead employed more master-planning. People won't make use of space under the Gardiner (a tough sell already) unless there is a strong and coherent vision for how that space is to be imagined, used, and connected.
 
Im with Modernizt on this. There is nothing holistic in what has been done to date. The lands under the Gardiner should have been master planned by the city to create a continuous theme throughout. It has so much potential, and to treat it the way it is currently being treated isn't benefitting the public or the developer.

This space should have been treated more like a 'high line', instead of fantasizing about the SRT ROW being turned into one. This could have been something Toronto could've been known for had the city taken a true holistic approach in designing and animating the space. Instead, we are stuck with lipstick on a pig. It's become each developer's art dump and nothing more.
 
Sure, the city SHOULD do a lot of things, but clearly it won't/ can't at this point in time. At least projects like this help. They are certainly not a hindrance.

Up taxes, dissolve the amalgamation and then let the gravy pour. Hopefully more planned change comes in the future, on a more cohesive larger scale, but we should really be looking at these types of projects as small victories and steps in the right direction.
 
I don't think a master plan is necessary. I really like that there are different art installations at various places under and around the Gardiner here and that its not all cohesive. It makes it more interesting to go exploring:

From a Fort York's new addition (and the lights under the Gardiner) over to June Callwood park then on to the Onni buildings, then City Place buildings and Mouth of the Creek Park, Canoe Landing Park, then over the bridge to Front St and through The Well...well, you get the idea. Each area will bring a different experience. A don't think a master plan would have achieved this at all or would have been more interesting then what we are getting. You must be still seeing a construction site whereas I see the future.

It just needs a clean up. Once the dust settles and the trees grow and decent retail and restaurants (and a new Loblaws!) come to fruition, then this will be an awesome area to live.
 
I will be happy if there's enough cohesion that I can from spot to spot under this section of the Gardiner without having to dismount from my bicycle to go around barriers — other than possibly having to cross at another spot at Bathurst, either a bit north or south. A succession of spaces is fine with me as long as they each provide some interest. No doubt they'll be judged by different people to have achieved differing levels of success. Based on the amount of money available for public realm improvements in this city, the most master planning we can expect from them is good flow from one to the other. There are so many things for us to spend money on, that while I want good infrastructure, I am not expecting unrealistically high levels of perfection.

Call it an art dump, and you're setting yourself up for disappointment: your negative attitude will present you with exactly what you are looking for. Conversely, understand that every developer is hiring a public art consultant who, like any professional, wants to prove their worth by delivering clever, well thought out artworks, and your more receptive attitude will have you looking for the delight that's waiting to be uncovered.

The delivery of public art in the city is a competitive process. There are a number of fine public art consultants in the city who have proven their expertise by delivering lots of interesting works of the last several years. These are highly educated and creative people who have a passion for what they do. Typically for any project several artists are invited to submit proposals to a jury for evaluation. Artists from across Canada compete with the best from around the world, and winning submissions come from home and abroad. Art consultants then pair the artists with local fabricators to create the pieces, and liaise with developers, architects, landscape architects, engineers, and the City as the development moves from notion to reality. It's nobody's art dump.

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I never questioned the qualifications of the artists themselves; but an interesting and well-considered artwork in a setting that most people won't want to spend time in is a missed opportunity. Simple as that. A "negative attitude" has nothing to do with it (constructive critique =/= negative attitude), and the idea of "unrealistically high levels of perfection" is a highly subjective statement / value judgment.

There's no need to defend mediocrity, especially when well-considered public spaces don't have to cost a lot more money in dollar value; they do, however, require some critical thought and some consideration beyond a few light standards, new paving, the addition of art installations, and the hope that once it's cleaned up it will magically become a space that locals want to spend more than a few seconds in. I guarantee that this summer (or whenever the area is fully cleaned up / opened up), it will not be a well-used public space. It is a missed opportunity.

It's unfortunate to me that a constructive critique on UrbanToronto and the vision for a quality public space is decried as a negative attitude, and that new pavers, a few light standards and benches underneath a highway are considered a good public space as long as public art is delivered in said space. (The fact that it's art from a highly competitive process and that the artists are very capable individuals has no bearing on my critique. The art itself is not the problem, as per my original post.)

There is nothing productive about making value judgments on the people who use public spaces. You can tell someone that their "negative attitude" is keeping them from enjoying a space (whatever that means), but the fact of the matter is that in reality, people will not spend time in a poorly conceived space that feels unwelcoming outside of providing some lone sculpture to designate the space as a people place.*

So far I've been told that the "cohesion is enough", the artworks make the space, and that a post-construction cleaning is still to come, and that I have a poor attitude toward the space (?). I've yet to hear anyone claim that this space is actually quality public realm that they would use and spend time in. Anecdotally, other Torontonians and peers who I've discussed these spaces with are not sold on the idea either, by and large. Underpass Park is an example of a much more successful use of the space.

*The next time I am at a critique for a space/building concept I have designed, I am going to finish by telling the panel that in fact, my design is good enough and that they went in to the critique with a negative attitude.
 
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interchange42 said:
I will be happy if there's enough cohesion that I can from spot to spot under this section of the Gardiner without having to dismount from my bicycle to go around barriers — other than possibly having to cross at another spot at Bathurst, either a bit north or south. A succession of spaces is fine with me as long as they each provide some interest. No doubt they'll be judged by different people to have achieved differing levels of success. Based on the amount of money available for public realm improvements in this city, the most master planning we can expect from them is good flow from one to the other. There are so many things for us to spend money on, that while I want good infrastructure, I am not expecting unrealistically high levels of perfection.

Call it an art dump, and you're setting yourself up for disappointment: your negative attitude will present you with exactly what you are looking for. Conversely, understand that every developer is hiring a public art consultant who, like any professional, wants to prove their worth by delivering clever, well thought out artworks, and your more receptive attitude will have you looking for the delight that's waiting to be uncovered.

The delivery of public art in the city is a competitive process. There are a number of fine public art consultants in the city who have proven their expertise by delivering lots of interesting works of the last several years. These are highly educated and creative people who have a passion for what they do. Typically for any project several artists are invited to submit proposals to a jury for evaluation. Artists from across Canada compete with the best from around the world, and winning submissions come from home and abroad. Art consultants then pair the artists with local fabricators to create the pieces, and liaise with developers, architects, landscape architects, engineers, and the City as the development moves from notion to reality. It's nobody's art dump.

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Oh please, spare the sob story.

No one here is criticizing the art, or the art consultants. In fact, I know Karen and Ben Mills who handle the majority of public art commissions on behalf of developers in this city. Their work is just fine, but even they would say their work is constrained by developers and the city's lack of vision and leadership. I am sure even they would see the value in a better programmed space where even more people can enjoy their work from outside of their vehicles and not just on a quick drive by as most do now.

These spaces under the Gardiner are doing nothing to bring people into them. A bit of art scattered about doesn't make it a good public space. A bit of a cleanup won't help either.

One just needs to look at Mitosis to see how unused the spaces will continue to be. Nobody hangs out under there. It's just as much of a wasteland as it was before the public art arrived. It wouldn't have taken more money to fix this, just a bit more thinking. The retail unit along Dan Leckie could have easily been moved a bit to the North to face Mitosis, and would have given the space much more animation than it currently has, and give people more reason to walk through or into it.

Instead, its nothing more than a driveway with pretty lights and has been seen as nothing more than that within the community. You shouldn't have to work hard to convince people that these spaces are more than that. They should do that themselves. At the end of the day, this is what the consultants are looking to do, and unfortunately, the execution is failing in that regard.
 
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The bench/planters and the rock sculpture are nice, but the graphics applied on the oddly painted blue columns of the Gardiner looks like something you see in a primary school.
It lacks any sophistication and artistry, and really cheapens the environment. The soldiers looks too cartoonish and the colours with the strange blue ceiling element looks very awkward and disjointed.
I understand the educational aspect of it but why make it so literal?

The columns should be clad with native stone with the soldiers carved into it with the text in varying scales which could be read from various distances.
Lighting would also be key in making this space warm, inviting and usable at night.
 
I would love to see ALL the columns under the Gardiner painted like this (minus the graphics). If the City is paying $500 million, or more, to just keep her up, might as well slap some paint on it too.
 
Hey all, I live in the fort york area and walk under this section of the Gardiner every day. I was reading some of the opinions regarding the art and design of this area and decided to take 10 mins to photoshop this idea together. No worries about this being legit lol. This is a simple concept. I like the idea Neuhaus mentioned about carving the soldiers into some native stone and the text at different sizes and scales. Unfortunately I'm guessing what is currently built is what will be there for some time. I was trying to match the column colour from the blue colour of the imprint on the 'cutout' of the boulder art. Since Onni didnt plant anything green, probably because its too shady for trees to grow, I added the planters with mosses which require little to no direct sunlight. The soldiers and text are conceptual but like the idea of creating a 'gateway' connection from Bathurst street leading west under the gardiner past Onnis Local condo and then connecting to the Visitors Centre. Not sure if anyone remembers when these blue rope lights were hung from the underside of the Gardiner in the area where the Visitors Centre is built. I thought it would be neat to reinforce this 'path', gateway form of wayfinding and create a interesting pluse or wave lighting effect connecting bathurst to the Visitors Center. Anyway, Thanks for the comments. Again, this is conceptual but would love to see this space articulated a bit further.
 

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Maybe you should give Councillor Mike Layton a shout -- he has often spoken about needing to do something under that stretch of the Gardiner.
 
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