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toforumer

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After Toronto's win for the 2015 Pan American Games, it got me thinking that landing these games is basically a launching pad for something much bigger.

I know this discussion somehow pops up every year or so but this is something we should discuss because it is probable that we might enter the race.

We the citzens of Toronto always had a losing mentality after two failed Olympic bids. Now we finally won an International Multi-Sporting Event and will have this under our resume once we submit an application for the Olympics plus the construction of sporting facilities and improvements to overall infrastructure.

Rio de Janeiro hosted the 2007 Pan Am Games in an attempt to land the 2016 Summer Olympics.

Anyways, I know there are those that are pro-Olympics for Toronto and those that are very against such a thing. But in all honesty, do you think the City of Toronto will put forth an Olympic bid for 2020?
 
Just to add to the discussion is this piece from the Toronto Star.

TORONTO HAS 20-20 OLYMPIC VISION...OR IS THAT 20-24?

Don’t think for a minute this isn’t serious talk.


Yes, we’ve all been down this road before. Several times, for some of us.



Toronto got smoked when it bid for the 1996 Summer Olympics, starting out ahead but then succumbing to political troubles at home and to the power of Atlanta and their gung-ho American team. And, yes, don’t forget that talk about the favours done for International Olympic Committee members.



The 2008 Summer bid was always a long shot. China had to have done something stupid to have lost the Games, and they didn’t. So that was that.



Now you come to 2020. Yes, it’s awfully soon after Vancouver’s 2010 Winter Games. Yes, it would be four Olympics in 44 years for a relatively puny country like Canada.



But here’s the thing: this might be the most winnable bid Toronto will ever have.



(I’m not saying the city should go for it. Personally, I think we’d get a lot out of the Pan Am Games in 2015 for very little cost and that security costs for the Olympics might outweigh the benefits.)

What I’m arguing isn’t that it’s a good idea, but that if you’re one of those folks who’s convinced it’s a good idea this might be the optimal time. And here’s why.



With Chicago having taking it, well, this is a family blog so we’ll say on the chin but you know what I mean, the United States is in ABSOLUTELY NO MOOD to jump back into the ring. An American bid is almost impossible unless the United States Olympic Committee does an absolute 180 degree turn and learns to get along with the IOC and not provoke it with repeated thrusts of a sharp stick.

Think about it; it’s time to come back to North America – the last Summer Games here were the forgettable Atlanta Olympics in 1996 - but there’s almost certainly no U.S. bidder. Which would leave Toronto in seemingly remarkable shape.



There’s also no sentimental favourite like Toronto faced in the 2008 vote with Beijing, or like Chicago just faced with Rio. With the 2016 Games in Rio, the only potential “you owe us the Games†candidate would be in Africa, which also has never hosted the Olympics. Right now, it’s hard to see an African bid on the horizon unless South Africa uses the 2010 World Cup as an Olympic trampoline for 2020.



That would be formidable, but I think that after the Rio bid the IOC likely will want to play one down the middle and go with Europe or Asia or North America. Tokyo might go again, and ditto for Madrid. Assuming former IOC president Juan Antonio Samaranch is still around, Madrid would be a formidable opponent for 2020. There’s been no indication yet that will happen, as the Madrilenos are still licking their wounds over last week’s loss to Rio.



Venice and Rome are talking about bids, which also would be interesting. Hey, Venice wouldn’t have to build a rowing course, right? Still, those aren’t exactly Beijing or Rio, are they? Any Olympic fight is tough. But 2020 appears to be, for now, about as wide open as you can imagine.



Several things would have to happen, of course. The folks who troll around the world gathering information and chatting with IOC types would have to gauge the IOC’s appetite for Toronto part III. Then you’d have to have the local will to get it done. I don’t think Mayor David Miller has ever been completely sold on the Pan Am bid, although I assume he’ll show the flag at the vote in Mexico next month. And I don’t know that he’d want to jump into an Olympic fight. But Miller has said he’s moseying off into the sunset, and there’s gonna be a new sheriff come November, 2010. I can see John Tory or George Smitherman being a lot more supportive of an Olympic bid, although who knows what local councillors or local opponents might do.



Then comes the potentially hard part; getting the Canadian Olympic Committee to endorse Toronto for 2020. They’re just gearing up for Vancouver and almost certainly don’t want to hear about another summer bid right now. They might have concerns about this being too soon. COC chief executive officer Chris Rudge told me last week he thinks 2020 is too soon, but that 2024 might work.



There are other, complicating factors, as there always seem to be in Canada. And that is Quebec.

Quebec City has bid for the Winter Games before and lost. And there are rumours it wants to go again, perhaps in 2022 or 2026.



The last thing this country needs is another set of bobsleigh runs, ski jumps and speedskating ovals. Geez, we’ve already got them in Calgary and now Vancouver/Whistler is replicating them a few hundred miles west. To have a third set of Olympic venues in this country would be sheer insanity and an incredible waste of taxpayers dollars.



But the COC is always mindful of being fair to all regions (to a fault, actually), which is why they opted to try for the Winter Games bid for Vancouver in 2010. And don’t forget that the new guy coming into head up the COC is none other than Quebecker Marcel Aubut. He will be under plenty of pressure to give Quebec City a Winter Olympics shot before letting Toronto potentially muck up the works.



This is all speculation, of course, but that’s what’s fun about the Olympic bid business.



One other thing to keep in mind. Bob Richardson, who was chief operating officer for the Toronto 2008 bid, was quoted in the Star on Sunday as saying there’s ZERO chance of a Toronto 2020 bid.

I don’t think he really means it. But Richardson is lobbying heavily for Toronto’s 2015 Pan Am Games bid, and he can’t be seen as lusting after a sexier dame when he’s twirling around the dance floor with Miss Pan Am, can he?



Richardson was passionate about the Toronto 2008 bid, and he undoubtedly loves the idea of 2020. Or at least 2024. But he’s got to deal with the November 6 Pan Am vote first. The last thing he wants is to have Toronto’s Pan Am opponents, Lima and Bogota, going around to Pan American Games voters and telling them that Toronto actually doesn’t love them but really wants the Olympics.



No, you’ll hear nothing positive from Richardson about a Toronto Olympic bid until he hears what happens with the Pan Am Games. But that doesn’t mean he or other folks who were instrumental in the 2008 bid aren’t standing eagerly on the sidelines, waiting for just the right moment to pounce. They are.



It’s gonna get interesting, folks.
 
I sure hope they don't. It would be a waste of time, since it is too close to Vancouver's 2010 games. I think Toronto should wait until 2024 or 2028 to put forth a bid.
 
Toronto or Hamilton should reconsider Commonwealth Games bid - Halifax dropped out of the bid after the proposed budget would be $1.7Bil. $1.7Bil? I bet Hamilton or T.O. would able to handle that for the size.
 
I sure hope they don't. It would be a waste of time, since it is too close to Vancouver's 2010 games. I think Toronto should wait until 2024 or 2028 to put forth a bid.

One would likely think this way.

But looking into Olympic politics and what not. I see the 2024 Olympics landing in Paris for the 100th Anniversary since the last Olympics held in Paris 1924. It would set a good stage for them. Plus like Toronto, Paris has bidded numerous times and has lost. It's about time they win again.
 
Toronto or Hamilton should reconsider Commonwealth Games bid - Halifax dropped out of the bid after the proposed budget would be $1.7Bil. $1.7Bil? I bet Hamilton or T.O. would able to handle that for the size.

Why would Toronto go after another 2nd tier sporting event? After hosting the Pan-Ams wouldn't you think they would go for the big prize? Hosting the Pan Ams will gain the city experience under their belt to tell the IOC "YES WE KNOW HOW TO HOST BIG MULTI-SPORTING EVENTS".
 
What I don't understand is the griping over what an Olympics would cost. For perhaps $4 billion it could cost (net of television, sponsorship, merchandizing and ticket revenues) to host the biggest show on earth and attract attention all around the world, or we could spend $2.4 billion for a Games we didn't even broadcast on television when they last occurred. I've been saying it's insane all along, but everyone seems to think the Pan Ams are a good deal. It's a false economy, really.
 
Why would Toronto go after another 2nd tier sporting event? After hosting the Pan-Ams wouldn't you think they would go for the big prize? Hosting the Pan Ams will gain the city experience under their belt to tell the IOC "YES WE KNOW HOW TO HOST BIG MULTI-SPORTING EVENTS".


Toronto won't be globally recognized for just hosting a Pan-Am games in 2015. That is like saying Calgary/Montreal/Vancouver are most famous cities in Canada just because they hosted Winter/Summer Olympics. When outsiders visit Canada, the first city that comes in mind is Toronto. Toronto is the most important city in Canada, not only financially but cultural-wise enormously diverse and a World Pride city (in 2014). T-Dot had several chances of hosting the Olympics, but it never came. And that is the biggest accomplishment EVER?

It would make sense if Toronto either hosts more sporting events what you call it "2nd tier" than waiting several years before re-bidding again for the Olympics. It would raise more status quicker through this than waiting until the opportunity for OLYMPIC comes.
 
What I don't understand is the griping over what an Olympics would cost. For perhaps $4 billion it could cost (net of television, sponsorship, merchandizing and ticket revenues) to host the biggest show on earth and attract attention all around the world, or we could spend $2.4 billion for a Games we didn't even broadcast on television when they last occurred. I've been saying it's insane all along, but everyone seems to think the Pan Ams are a good deal. It's a false economy, really.

Pan-Ams are only recognized continentally but not globally; so no doubt it is a false economy. A true economy is only when long-term investment in development is established during the globally recognized sports/cultural events (World Cup, Olympics, Expo) and still grows even after the games.
 
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Toronto won't be globally recognized for just hosting a Pan-Am games in 2015. That is like saying Calgary/Montreal/Vancouver are most famous cities in Canada just because they hosted Winter/Summer Olympics. When outsiders visit Canada, the first city that comes in mind is Toronto. Toronto is the most important city in Canada, not only financially but cultural-wise enormously diverse and a World Pride city (in 2014). T-Dot had several chances of hosting the Olympics, but it never came. And that is the biggest accomplishment EVER?

It would make sense if Toronto either hosts more sporting events what you call it "2nd tier" than waiting several years before re-bidding again for the Olympics. It would raise more status quicker through this than waiting until the opportunity for OLYMPIC comes.

What would you call the Pan Ams? 1st tier?

I support the Toronto 2015 Pan Ams but they are a 2nd tier sporting event.

And with the addition of a lot of new sporting facilities. I see it very likely Toronto and its surrounding regions will host many sporting events, World Championships,etc. We couldn't in the past because we never had a World Class Aquatic Centre, Veledrome,etc. The Pan Ams will just build up Toronto's portfolio so it can pursue bigger and better things such as the Olympics. Just ask Rio.
 
What would you call the Pan Ams? 1st tier?

I support the Toronto 2015 Pan Ams but they are a 2nd tier sporting event.

And with the addition of a lot of new sporting facilities. I see it very likely Toronto and its surrounding regions will host many sporting events, World Championships,etc. We couldn't in the past because we never had a World Class Aquatic Centre, Veledrome,etc. The Pan Ams will just build up Toronto's portfolio so it can pursue bigger and better things such as the Olympics. Just ask Rio.

I never called the Pan-Ams 1st tier; in fact, Pan-Ams should have been hosted by Ottawa or Hamilton rather than Toronto. Toronto is too prestigious to host Pan-Ams. IF T-Dot is proud of hosting Pan-Am as the biggest event they accomplished, then the city downgraded itself to an alike of Winnipeg (yes they hosted Pan-Am too). Seriously, for a megapolis to host "Pan-Am" is not too phenomenal.

And don't compare T.O. to Rio; Rio's bid was heavily supported not only by regional but by government as well; aside from that, Brazil has not hosted any Olympics (don't count Pan-Ams or World Cup) to this date (they will soon in 2016 and Toronto haven't hosted one so far!) Plus, their plan was more successful than the anticipating plan we have for 2015 Games.
 
I would really like to see the Olympics come to Toronto in 2020. Forget about 2024 if Quebec is going to do a bit. We need to beat them to it, or else it just won't happen for a long time.
 
I think if we don't go for 2020, the US will get it that year, thereby making it unlikely we could seriously be considered for a games before 2032. That's a long ways off.

I would really like to see the Olympics come to Toronto in 2020. Forget about 2024 if Quebec is going to do a bit. We need to beat them to it, or else it just won't happen for a long time.

Quebec will not get 2022. Only the US (84 and 96) and Innsbruck Austria have hosted two of the same Olympics within 12 years and Innsbruck only hosted because Denver pulled out and Vancouver declined the games when offered them. So they had to go to Innsbruck because they had just hosted a games and all the infrastructure ready to go. I think the LA and Atlanta is an aberration and if not for the power of Coca Cola would never have happened.

One would likely think this way.

But looking into Olympic politics and what not. I see the 2024 Olympics landing in Paris for the 100th Anniversary since the last Olympics held in Paris 1924. It would set a good stage for them. Plus like Toronto, Paris has bidded numerous times and has lost. It's about time they win again.

This is wrong. There is no evidence to support that they would go to Paris simply because it's the 100th anniversary of their hosting of the games. If you want a good example of why these anniversaries don't mean anything just look at 1996 when Atlanta beat Athens, and Athens/Greece is the home of the Olympics (!) so if any place was going to get them on an anniversary it would have been them. Plus if the IOC went with the sentimental angle, they'd be setting a precedent.
 
I think if we don't go for 2020, the US will get it that year, thereby making it unlikely we could seriously be considered for a games before 2032. That's a long ways off.



Quebec will not get 2022. Only the US (84 and 96) and Innsbruck Austria have hosted two of the same Olympics within 12 years and Innsbruck only hosted because Denver pulled out and Vancouver declined the games when offered them. So they had to go to Innsbruck because they had just hosted a games and all the infrastructure ready to go. I think the LA and Atlanta is an aberration and if not for the power of Coca Cola would never have happened.



This is wrong. There is no evidence to support that they would go to Paris simply because it's the 100th anniversary of their hosting of the games. If you want a good example of why these anniversaries don't mean anything just look at 1996 when Atlanta beat Athens, and Athens/Greece is the home of the Olympics (!) so if any place was going to get them on an anniversary it would have been them. Plus if the IOC went with the sentimental angle, they'd be setting a precedent.


Ugh your comparing Athen's bid to a Paris bid? Athen's struggled to organize their 2004 Olympics on time and went ridiculously way over budget. Venue construction was still going on a week before the Olympics opened up and let's not forget that they couldn't even finish construction on their Aquatics Centre's roof so the athlete's had to suffer from the Sun and Heat during the 2004 Olympics. Had they won their 1996 bid I could just imagine what a big mess those Olympics could have been if they were in Athens.

When I mentioned that Paris has a good chance of winning a 2024 Olympics, its not only the sentimental favourings in this matter. Paris presents a very safe and technically strong bid from a rich and prosperous country. Something that Athens can't match for such a small country. It might have had the sentimental factoring into their 1996 bid but technically it wasn't the best.
 

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