This is just Planning reacting to a new reality. If they don't want to refund the application fee (and why would they), they have to approve or refuse. My assumption is they'll continue to try and work behind the scenes with the applicant(s) because despite its developer-friendly reputation, few actually want to go to the Board except as a last resort.

It's just Planning doing what they need to do in the short term. How this actually plays out longer term? Who knows. Doug sure as shit doesn't have any idea...
 
ProjectEnd said:
They're not going to appeal (unless they decide they can't get there in time). This is all the result of the new Doug Ford regime where the City has to issue an approval or a refusal or refund the application fees. We'll continue to see more and more initial refusal reports which essentially just represent what we used to know as Preliminary Reports (those were also eliminated). Nothing to fear here.
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You don’t think Madison will appeal a refusal from council, which this recommends? They absolutely will or the application dies there which they probably aren’t interested in.

I agree with your assessment RE: refusal reports becoming more common though, Staff have made it clear they won’t be refunding application fees, so they’ll be making a decision within the new timeframes, and in many cases that’s going to be refusal. IMO the province didn’t think it through and now we’re going to probably see longer overall timelines as a result when the OLT becomes flooded.
 
The application doesn't "die there". It'll continue to get negotiated and, if a deal can't be reached, Madison will appeal.

Why does everyone think folks want to go to contested hearings? It's a $500k+ and potentially 2 year expenditure that you can otherwise avoid if things are going well with the City. Even the most hard-headed developers around here would certainly rather avoid it if they can. All that said, I don't know how Madison will react. Josh is Josh but at the end of the day he'll likely just want to settle at what works for them and is most efficient.
 
ProjectEnd said:
The application doesn't "die there". It'll continue to get negotiated and, if a deal can't be reached, Madison will appeal.

Why does everyone think folks want to go to contested hearings? It's a $500k+ and potentially 2 year expenditure that you can otherwise avoid if things are going well with the City. Even the most hard-headed developers around here would certainly rather avoid it if they can. All that said, I don't know how Madison will react. Josh is Josh but at the end of the day he'll likely just want to settle at what works for them and is most efficient.
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Nobody wants to go to a contested hearing, I agree there. But once council makes a decision to refuse, then yes without an appeal that is it. You can't continue to negotiate an application once refused without an appeal, unless you want to have off the record conversations and submit a new application later.

They will have to appeal to keep negotiations going with Staff, then likely proceed to a settlement hearing. Thats the pretty standard course of action these days.
 
@Msleylar you have a message.

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On the subject in the thread posts above, I gather that a proponent must file an appeal with 20 days of a refusal by Council?

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Correct. They have 20 days to file an appeal following the decision, or else that becomes the final outcome of the application and a new one would need to be filed.
 
We're in uncharted territory here, and the department certainly work in mysterious ways, but if my [informed-by-sources-in-Planning] opinion is correct, why does council have to vote on this at the next meeting? That said I could be entirely wrong and this is indeed a way for Planning to shrug difficult files off on someone else. We'll just have to wait and see.
 
ProjectEnd said:
We're in uncharted territory here, and the department certainly work in mysterious ways, but if my [informed-by-sources-in-Planning] opinion is correct, why does council have to vote on this at the next meeting? That said I could be entirely wrong and this is indeed a way for Planning to shrug difficult files off on someone else. We'll just have to wait and see.
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Fair enough, but Council has to make a decision or the fees will have to be refunded. That's the central issue here, as the timing in the Planning Act isn't for staff to make a recommendation, it's for Council to make a decision. No decision, fees become liable to be refunded which isn't going to happen. So they will have to refuse (unless they're prepared to approve) and kick it to OLT to avoid the potential refund.
 
ProjectEnd said:
You mean to say that all this nonsense from the provincial government was never thought through and will likely result in longer approval times for projects as things get backed up at OLT?? Colour me shocked!
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I know right....shocking from this government! My guess, we will see BILD quietly advocate to walk back that refund provision (no developers I know actually want it) as people are seeing the negative impacts from it. It's basically the City saying "fine you want your decision in 90 days? Here it is" and I can't say I blame them.
 
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