Torontovibe "


If I lived in Humber Bay Shores, I'd be very worried right now. I thought the city learned its lesson in selling a large plot of land to just one developer? I hope it did anyway. I guess we'll have to wait to see how the city deals with this. "


Torontovibes argument is selling to one developer could screw up a large piece of land...

Amare said:
I would be extremely worried if I lived there as well. Heck I live 10 mins drive away and i'm still very worried. I dont want to add any fuel to the "fire" right now per se, but this area definitely cant absorb another huge development like what is currently going on around there, nonetheless a "Lake Place". From an infrastructure perspective the Gardiner around that section is already at its limits, and Lake Shore is approaching its limits (past the Humber River at rush hour). Once the current round of developments has been fully completed Park Lawn will be a zoo all the way to Queensway, and the Queensway itself will have serious traffic issues. Add to that the 501 will not be able to absorb significant demand at its current service levels and even if there was another GO station at Park Lawn, the Lakeshore West line is already packed at rush hour.

I'm sorry but Corcord is really over their heads if they think they're going to get away with a 3rd development like the other two PoS developments they've already done.
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Amares argument is that this areas infrastructure can not hold all the new people. Sorry to break it to you but whether its one developer or ten condos will be built and we are going to all have to learn to live with the new infrastructure constraints...

If this development depresses you just wait until the food terminal goes for sale and we add another dozen or so buildings.
 
Amare said:
I would be extremely worried if I lived there as well. Heck I live 10 mins drive away and i'm still very worried. I dont want to add any fuel to the "fire" right now per se, but this area definitely cant absorb another huge development like what is currently going on around there, nonetheless a "Lake Place". From an infrastructure perspective the Gardiner around that section is already at its limits, and Lake Shore is approaching its limits (past the Humber River at rush hour). Once the current round of developments has been fully completed Park Lawn will be a zoo all the way to Queensway, and the Queensway itself will have serious traffic issues. Add to that the 501 will not be able to absorb significant demand at its current service levels and even if there was another GO station at Park Lawn, the Lakeshore West line is already packed at rush hour.

I'm sorry but Corcord is really over their heads if they think they're going to get away with a 3rd development like the other two PoS developments they've already done.
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The most obvious solution for transportation is building the WW LRT and Parklawn GO station, but that would make too much sense. Because only when this place becomes another Liberty Village will anyone notice, at which point many years of political wrangling will commence over what constitutes world class transit at that particular time, how to avoid paying for it through taxes, and most importantly will it help somebody get elected.
 
Amare said:
I would be extremely worried if I lived there as well. Heck I live 10 mins drive away and i'm still very worried. I dont want to add any fuel to the "fire" right now per se, but this area definitely cant absorb another huge development like what is currently going on around there, nonetheless a "Lake Place". From an infrastructure perspective the Gardiner around that section is already at its limits, and Lake Shore is approaching its limits (past the Humber River at rush hour). Once the current round of developments has been fully completed Park Lawn will be a zoo all the way to Queensway, and the Queensway itself will have serious traffic issues. Add to that the 501 will not be able to absorb significant demand at its current service levels and even if there was another GO station at Park Lawn, the Lakeshore West line is already packed at rush hour..
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No kidding. If this development goes through, it should be contingent on a number of infrastructure developments;

1) Streetcar Loop at Parklawn for the 501 / 508
2) New GO Station at Park Lawn
3) West Waterfront LRT

Optional (Future)
4) BRT on Queensway from Park Lawn GO Station to Sherway Gardens

Unfortunately, our councilor is a slimeball, and will make sure all developments go through in this area without any significant infrastructure investments. Just like Humber Bay Shores has gone so far, basically.
 
Concord Adex has not bought the Mondelez/Kraft Lands.

Mr. Leung added his name to the lobbyist registry as Concord were considering the purchase. As he sat down to talk with the local City Councillor, Mark Grimes, and the head of Economic Development to discuss the site's potential, he needed to register.

Two developers went through the due diligence process, and Concord Adex was not one of them. I don't believe that any company has yet purchased the land.

I know we have never seen one of these lobbyist register entries posted on UrbanToronto ever before, so it's new for everyone, and it has led everyone to jump to conclusions. It's also led to some OTT reaction, and that, unfortunately, this site is all too practiced at.

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Yay! I really hope some sensible community-based planning is done here. Must haves are a fully built GO station and some sort of heavy retail component with commercial and institutional uses. Last I heard they're hoping to land a college campus of sorts.
 
The problem in my opinion is the subway subway subway mantra affects us more than we like to admit. Easily lakeshore and tthe queensway could handle LRT for reasonable costs. But it isn't being talked about. What I'm concerned about is the DRL being done to about bathurst kraft being fully redeveloped and the food terminal sold the residents will start to demand the subway makes it out this way even if it doesn't exactly make sense. I miss transit city. I hope the can just make a decision on the srt without affecting other routes and i hope waterfront gets talked about sooner than later. LRT is only prohibitively expensive when you have to dig. Eglinto price shouldn't scare people about other routes which likely won't have a underground section.
 
sixrings said:
The problem in my opinion is the subway subway subway mantra affects us more than we like to admit. Easily lakeshore and tthe queensway could handle LRT for reasonable costs. But it isn't being talked about. What I'm concerned about is the DRL being done to about bathurst kraft being fully redeveloped and the food terminal sold the residents will start to demand the subway makes it out this way even if it doesn't exactly make sense. I miss transit city. I hope the can just make a decision on the srt without affecting other routes and i hope waterfront gets talked about sooner than later. LRT is only prohibitively expensive when you have to dig. Eglinto price shouldn't scare people about other routes which likely won't have a underground section.
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GO RER and a GO station at Park Lawn or the Humber Loop would make the Mondelez lands redevelopable in a big way. Essentially, once GO is running frequently all day, areas around GO stations will become as well connected as places on the subway now, and a lot of transit-taking Torontonians will change their travel habits. With only a couple of stops between Union and Humber Bay, the Mondelez lands would be very highly desirable. Without a GO station, it's still interesting, but nowhere near as much.

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interchange42 said:
Concord Adex has not bought the Mondelez/Kraft Lands.

Mr. Leung added his name to the lobbyist registry as Concord were considering the purchase. As he sat down to talk with the local City Councillor, Mark Grimes, and the head of Economic Development to discuss the site's potential, he needed to register.

Two developers went through the due diligence process, and Concord Adex was not one of them. I don't believe that any company has yet purchased the land.

I know we have never seen one of these lobbyist register entries posted on UrbanToronto ever before, so it's new for everyone, and it has led everyone to jump to conclusions. It's also led to some OTT reaction, and that, unfortunately, this site is all too practiced at.

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Thanks for the update on that. As far i'm concerned Concord should be the last developer that should be allowed to build on such a large parcel of land. Heck if the Kraft lands were 1/20th of its current size Concord should still be the last developer allowed to build. They should finish up the other two developments they have and get out of Toronto for good.
 
Sorry, but it's pretty extreme to talking about who should be "allowed" to build. Whoever pays the money buys the land, and then kicks off the development process. The planning process does allow for public feedback. Have your say when you get your chance with whatever developer eventually purchases the land here, and if you don't feel like the public gets enough say in the process, then you have to lobby for changes to the process, whether at the provincial level or the municipal one. If you want to go as far as whether any particular developer should not be allowed to build, then I think you're talking revolution on a national level, and looking for another way to run the country.

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And Concord aren't going anywhere for the next decade and a half or so
 
Thanks for clearing that up interchange42. Though it's good to know that there is movement and players are showing interest on this large site.

Curious to know what kind of requirements and limitations Eco Dev is looking for.
 
Econo Devel has to tow City of Toronto policy on employment lands, and that is that they stay employment, and in the same sector. In this case, that would be industrial. It's a contentious debate, but I'll wade into it to say that I do not think that it is realistic for the City to hang on to the same employment use in all of its shuttered former factory spaces, but yes, any proposal here should still focus heavily on employment. Shifting employment into office space, retail, and education would all make sense for this site.

Meanwhile, Mondelez is pursuing rezoning, but I don't know who is acting for them on that. They should also be pursuing Metrolinx to get a GO Station here in time for redevelopment and GO electrification/RERifying. The land will be worth much, much more zoned as mixed-use and with a transit hub onsite. I suspect this will take a while.

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