evandyk
Senior Member
I would bet on a cheap and superficial reno. There's a lot of revenue to be made running a hotel there, even a cheaper one.
- Thread starter Northern Light
- Start date
mburrrrr
Senior Member
I assume the revenue was much greater as a shelter than a hotel. Very little expenses, 100% guaranteed occupancy, no staff, no sales, pure profit. Why give it up? Take the renovation cash and building something new but don’t block my view. Oh wait, maybe they should renovate the Hotel.
Edit. Added below
~$10M revenue per year plus didn’t the city auditor find a laundry list of extras that were approved too?
All this during very low Hotel occupancy but I guess the hotel rack rates are much higher today.
From the previous link one page back.
Gross Rent: $20,500.00 (plus HST) per day assuming 205 rooms and up to $25,400.00 (plus HST) per day if 254 rooms are leased. At the City's discretion, the City may lease up to 2 boardrooms for $80/day/boardroom (plus HST), which fee will be waived during any period of time that the City leases 254 rooms. Gross rent includes an apportionment of realty taxes. The City reserves the right to seek tax relief for the portion of realty tax attributed in the gross rent.
Plus $30x365x254 people for food. Another $2.76M
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evandyk
Senior Member
It was definitely a good deal for them when travel was way down. I would think they could do better than that in current conditions, but I'm neither a hotelier nor a financier, so it's just speculation.
junctionist
Senior Member
I saw generic chain motels in Mississauga go for $150+ a night one weekend last summer when I had my wedding and had a lot of guests coming in from out of town. Any decent hotel downtown was going for a minimum of $300 a night with a corporate discount. The prices are significantly elevated now, which suggests that demand is high.
Accor (Novotel's parent) had set up a pop-up booth at Union Station today, trying to induce people to sign up for their loyalty program (you would get a cookie for doing so). This one is closed, and Novotel's North York location was recently purchased for affordable housing, so there can't be too much Accor accommodation around at the moment for anyone to be loyal to, unless they want to stay near the airport I suppose. In any case, people signing up here are more likely to stay in other cities' Accor locations…
…but still, Accor must we wanting to strengthen their Toronto presence again.
42
…but still, Accor must we wanting to strengthen their Toronto presence again.
42
daptive
Active Member
Guess the Fairmont Royal York is also under their ownership.
DSC
Superstar
I think that Accor do not own the 45 The Esplanade site, they had a lease or contract to operate the hotel that was there. In general, I think hotel management companies have been separating their property-ownerships from the operating agreements.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
There are other examples of hotel properties in redevelopment pipeline doing that (off the top of my head - Courtyard Marriott and Eaton Chelsea).
AoD
rbt
Senior Member
$100k annual revenue per room for recently renovated downtown hotels is quite a bit of incentive to run it for a few years.
Preconstruction condo sales aren't what they were even just 9 months ago. Holding off a few years until spooked investors are lining up again is beneficial, especially if the property is turning a profit until then.
mburrrrr
Senior Member
The next 30 days will be interesting to see what happens next. Hotel or Condo
The Silver Hotel Group has on their website; planned re-opening of the Novotel Toronto Centre spring 2023.
I wonder when we will find out what the financial damage is?
They were removing bags/dumpsters of garbage the last two weeks and today they are removing the mattresses and carpets, What’s next?
The Silver Hotel Group has on their website; planned re-opening of the Novotel Toronto Centre spring 2023.
I wonder when we will find out what the financial damage is?
They were removing bags/dumpsters of garbage the last two weeks and today they are removing the mattresses and carpets, What’s next?
DSC
Superstar
I suspect we will see a hotel there for a couple of years while they get all their Zoning and development plans approved and then they will shut the hotel and demolish. Silver Hotel Group also own the Hotel Victoria and the Strathcona Hotel - both of these are also listed on their website but when one tries to book both are 'temporarily closed' (and are City shelters.) Hotels tend to 'refresh' every 4 or 5 years so I bet the cost of a (maybe more than normal) refurbishment of 45 The Esplanade will be easily paid for by the City funding and probably a good mid-term investment for the Silver Group. I was a bit surprised to see on the Accor website that THEY are returning as the operators.
"Novotel Toronto Centre: Hotel that makes every moment matter
Novotel Toronto Centre will temporarily close, effective February 16th, 2021. We plan to re-open in spring 2023 following a property-wide refresh and revitalization, and look forward to welcoming you back to our hotel." https://all.accor.com/hotel/0931/index.en.shtml
Redroom Studios
Senior Member
what a shame they are destroying this landmark property.
UtakataNoAnnex
Senior Member
I guess they're going to the mattresses... 
mburrrrr
Senior Member
So this is my understanding of the current situation from my post 1 page back;
I guess the term was up Dec 31,2022 and the City had to provide an estimated cost to restore the place. The owner, Silver Hotels, had two days to accept the offer. I’m assuming this offer was turned down as the demolition portion of the restoration appears to be underway. Assuming the subcontractors on site are the City’s and not Silver Hotels’.
The City now has 30 days to complete the restoration while continuing to pay rent of 205 rooms ($20,500/day minimum) until the restoration is complete. Assuming the contract extension from 2021 to 2022 did not change the Restoration clause.
For $20,500 per day the stuff should be flying in and out the doors. I’m not sure what happens after 30 days when they’re not done.
Dumpster dive update. Is this creeping? I guess if they tarp the next bin I will have my answer.
Dec 30 carpets and beds were removed;
Jan 3,6,8,10 bar fridges, desks, cabinets, front doors and curtains.
What’s next? Some drywall and maybe some bathroom fixtures?
The renovation bill will be climbing. Can the City accomplish a hotel renovation efficiently and cost effective? We shall see.
I guess the term was up Dec 31,2022 and the City had to provide an estimated cost to restore the place. The owner, Silver Hotels, had two days to accept the offer. I’m assuming this offer was turned down as the demolition portion of the restoration appears to be underway. Assuming the subcontractors on site are the City’s and not Silver Hotels’.
The City now has 30 days to complete the restoration while continuing to pay rent of 205 rooms ($20,500/day minimum) until the restoration is complete. Assuming the contract extension from 2021 to 2022 did not change the Restoration clause.
For $20,500 per day the stuff should be flying in and out the doors. I’m not sure what happens after 30 days when they’re not done.
Dumpster dive update. Is this creeping? I guess if they tarp the next bin I will have my answer.
Dec 30 carpets and beds were removed;
Jan 3,6,8,10 bar fridges, desks, cabinets, front doors and curtains.
What’s next? Some drywall and maybe some bathroom fixtures?
The renovation bill will be climbing. Can the City accomplish a hotel renovation efficiently and cost effective? We shall see.
Northern Light
Superstar
An Appeal Report (formerly Request for Direction Report) for this one is on the agenda of the next meeting of the TEYCC:
Staff continue to oppose this one, for several reasons, some of which have my sympathy.
From the above:
Comments: My read of tone and tenor here is that Planning thinks this app is very fixable and there is a settlement offer to be had. They don't seem irked by the height/density just the way its massed, the appearance of the building and its relationship to the street. They would like some additional non-residential GFA; that could be a sticking point, but given the owner here, I'm not sure that hotel uses couldn't easily address that.
Staff continue to oppose this one, for several reasons, some of which have my sympathy.
From the above:
Comments: My read of tone and tenor here is that Planning thinks this app is very fixable and there is a settlement offer to be had. They don't seem irked by the height/density just the way its massed, the appearance of the building and its relationship to the street. They would like some additional non-residential GFA; that could be a sticking point, but given the owner here, I'm not sure that hotel uses couldn't easily address that.